Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

I spoke up! I actually did it!!!

66 replies

WineAndHobnobs · 01/07/2020 04:39

Sorry for the self-indlugent post, but I did something today that I have wanted to do for ages. I spoke up about my concerns regarding Self-ID. I was met with a barrage of 'TERF' but I stood my ground, presented reasoned arguments and did not allow the abuse to shut me down.

I am scared but I am so glad I did it. I am an older lady. I used to buy Spare Rib, which tells you how old I am. I thought we had won years ago, we didn't need Feminism anymore. I was wrong, we need it now more than ever.

Thank you FWR for being here, for educating us and for looking out for all of us.

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
TehBewilderness · 03/07/2020 20:21

@Lamahaha

What Tra’s never mention is that the greatest violence against trans women is domestic abuse, much higher than against straight and lesbian women. It’s safer for a trans woman to go into a men’s toilet than to go home. What? Are you saying that their wives bear them up? Seriously?! And why do you mention straight women? What does sexual attraction have to do with it?

@Tinselangel what say you?

Men do the vast majority of the abusing and killing in every society regardless of how people identify. The domestic violence category is no different.
TehBewilderness · 03/07/2020 20:17

@gonesolo

What I don’t understand is why trans women are so keen to be called women (as in there are only 2 options; man or woman). I’m pretty sure they champion the whole “non binary” view of sexuality and not everyone is either straight or gay. What the hell is the problem of us having more than 2 categories?

I am new to this so am slightly baffled by it.

As I understand it the issue is validation. Maintaining their beliefs requires validation from those who do not share their beliefs. Basically a social dominance display.
gonesolo · 03/07/2020 13:29

What I don’t understand is why trans women are so keen to be called women (as in there are only 2 options; man or woman). I’m pretty sure they champion the whole “non binary” view of sexuality and not everyone is either straight or gay. What the hell is the problem of us having more than 2 categories?

I am new to this so am slightly baffled by it.

Original poster
WineAndHobnobs · 03/07/2020 09:00

@highame You're right about it feeling like we're back in the 60s. And not in a good way. But people fought hard for equality then and that is what we need to do now.

OP posts:
highame · 03/07/2020 08:55

Wineandhobnobs - had forgotten all about Spare Rib, wow. Funny isn't it, I feel as though we're back to the 60's. Race and Equality were high on the agenda then and it looks like ways will always be found to try and do us down. Well done you. Haven't got a twitter presence so no point me posting anything but will support all of you who do.

Lamahaha · 03/07/2020 03:33

^^bear = beat

Lamahaha · 03/07/2020 03:29

What Tra’s never mention is that the greatest violence against trans women is domestic abuse, much higher than against straight and lesbian women. It’s safer for a trans woman to go into a men’s toilet than to go home.
What? Are you saying that their wives bear them up? Seriously?! And why do you mention straight women? What does sexual attraction have to do with it?

@Tinselangel what say you?

Time40 · 03/07/2020 02:19

I’ve realised one of the good things about getting older is that we don’t have to worry about trans-trolls blighting our long-term future career, or social media turning antisocial on us

Very true. And also, I have genuinely never met anyone who believes in this ideology - I'm sure there are thousands of older people who haven't, either. I'm so sorry for people who are surrounded by the woke, or feel they can't talk about these issues because doing so could affect their jobs. I feel totally free to say whatever I want about this issue. I have a feeling older people are going to be key in winning the fight - and hardly any of them even know, at the moment, that there IS a fight.

SonjaHeniesTutu · 03/07/2020 01:58

Thank you Wine!!Flowers You are very braveWine

One thing I've been confused about is by opening womens' safe spaces to all and sundry who decide they want to ID as a woman whenever they want then how exactly does that keep those fearful trans women safe. They want access to the safe places to be safe from men, however they want the spaces open to any manConfused

ArriettyJones · 03/07/2020 01:28

Well done Wine

WineAndHobnobs · 02/07/2020 23:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JemimaShore · 02/07/2020 23:22

That's the quote I was looking for - I'd forgotten it was the wonderful Helen Lewis.

TehBewilderness · 02/07/2020 20:44

@JemimaShore

Every one of those threatening tweets sent to JKR stands as evidence for why women need female only spaces.

Every time a TRA has posed with a baseball bat, or a knife, or said 'punch a terf' or "I'd love to rape a terf" - is evidence of the same.

It's a bit like in the olden days before transactivism was a thing (about 5 years ago!) - the comments below a feminist article, justified the need for feminism.

"In 2012, Helen Lewis coined Lewis's Law: "the comments on any article about feminism justify feminism". She has written about the harassment of women online and trolling."
JemimaShore · 02/07/2020 09:52

but they're a threat because they are THREATENING US.

Brew Brew Brew

We need to say this more.

Original poster
WineAndHobnobs · 02/07/2020 09:44

@JeminaShore, Indeed it does. Why can't people see that? In my conversation on this, someone asked why I see trans people as a threat. I didn't say at the time (kicking myself now), but they're a threat because they are THREATENING US.

OP posts:
JemimaShore · 02/07/2020 09:37

Every one of those threatening tweets sent to JKR stands as evidence for why women need female only spaces.

Every time a TRA has posed with a baseball bat, or a knife, or said 'punch a terf' or "I'd love to rape a terf" - is evidence of the same.

It's a bit like in the olden days before transactivism was a thing (about 5 years ago!) - the comments below a feminist article, justified the need for feminism.

Original poster
WineAndHobnobs · 02/07/2020 09:24

Regarding the JK Rowling tweets... given that TRA's threatened sexual violence against a woman for voicing an opinion, how the fuck do they expect to be welcomed into our safe spaces? Like, really? They say they're not a threat, but their words say otherwise.

OP posts:
Original poster
WineAndHobnobs · 02/07/2020 01:28

@Sneakyfox Take care and only speak up if you feel you can.

OP posts:
Sneakyfox · 01/07/2020 23:39

@WineAndHobnobs I'm new to this, I'm 41 and I'm ashamed to say that! Because someone else has always done the 'fighting for our rights' bit, throughout my career and life (apart from one example), I have never felt marginalised. But now I have children...and fuck this bullshit. I will not have my little girls rights diminished for the sake of being kind. She has had a hard enough start to life as it is, without all of this bs.

I am learning, I am listening and I will soon be ready to be accountable for my thoughts. Because of my family situation though , I need to be safe (I've name changed for this)...What a ridiculous statement to have to make in 2020!! But I've seen the abuse for simply stating biological fact!, I saw my first dick pic answer on twitter today to a reasonable, debatable tweet. What a world!! I hope to be in your position soon where i can argue a reasonable debate. Well done and keep up the good fight.

Thank you everyone on this board, you have opened my eyes. I think your army is growing due to your resilience...silently but purposefully.

Original poster
WineAndHobnobs · 01/07/2020 21:38

@tennischamp, sorry you had that experience. My DH was peak-transed quite early on, when he discovered that Self ID meant that potentially pervy old blokes could ID as women and share changing facilities with our DD. He said he hadn't thought of it like that.

And I think that's the problem. When most people think of trans women, they imagine trannies of old: gay men who dress up as women, most of whom have fully transitioned. And who, by and large, are pretty harmless. This new breed of trans people: heterosexual, male-bodied, aggressive men, are, by contrast, utterly terrifying.

OP posts:
tennischamp · 01/07/2020 21:13

I just had one of the biggest arguments in 20 years with my DH as I finally spoke up about this, and called him out on lack of public support (he is a very regular Twitter user). His view was similar to pp, there were two sides to the story and between women and TW to sort out.
I did not stay calm... We have woke teenage girls and he has not entered into my discussions with them at all.
I am furious, he is an intelligent man who prides himself on engaged with current issues.

Talking about JK and his first comment was to start nitpicking with the accuracy of her statements. Then basically accused me of being transphobic even though the conversation started with me reiterating that people can 'wear what they like, call themselves what they like..'
Am quite shocked really

NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace · 01/07/2020 21:09

@WineAndHobnobs

Brilliant. And thank you Flowers

Tonz · 01/07/2020 21:07

Well done you. Thank you Women are women, trans women are trans women, we are not the same and never will be

Original poster
WineAndHobnobs · 01/07/2020 20:58

@Skyliner001 The context was we were discussing intersectionality with regard to something completely unconnected. As in, ‘you can’t believe this if you don’t believe that.’ I pointed out a conflict between feminism and trans rights as an example. I was told ‘actual’ feminists know that TWAW. Only TERFs didn’t believe that.

Now this is where it gets interesting... one of the guys mentioned JK Rowling and I showed them the screenshot of her posts followed by the abuse she received, that someone helpfully provided on here. I said that it was NEVER OK to threaten a woman with sexual violence just because you disagreed with her point of view. People were quite shocked to read those posts and agreed with me.

Then I talked about access to women-only facilities and how that will be open to abuse by opportunists who ID as women. One lady said the movement should be aimed at those men, not trans people in general. I used the line about offering women up as collateral and how is that OK. People went quiet at this point.

I didn’t expect this, but I actually think the message was getting through. I believe that most people are just ill-informed, as I was when I first started posting on this board.

OP posts: