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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Free speech and tech giants

57 replies

DonkeySkin · 30/06/2020 13:24

Thread to discuss the implications of public discourse being controlled by a handful of private companies in the US, and what (if any) remedies are available.

This issue concerns everyone, obviously, but has particular implications for women, given the dominance of men in tech.

Tech companies are the new seat of world power and they are overwhelmingly male. While women have been diligently working towards getting equal representation in government, men have been building a 'Brotopia' in Silicon Valley.

The term 'Brotopia', should not be regarded flippantly. It is a quite literal description of a society designed solely according to (mostly young) male preferences. Previously such men would have had to negotiate with young female preferences, the controlling hand of older men and, particularly, the wisdom of older women. Read Emily Chang's research on what happens to social norms when young (or youngish) men don't have to cleave to traditional strictures designed to curb the extremes of male behaviour:

www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/01/brotopia-silicon-valley-secretive-orgiastic-inner-sanctum

The creation of a Brotopia doesn't even have to be deliberate. It's purely a numbers game. Men gravitate to tech in much greater numbers than women, hence the priorities of tech will reflect the priorities of those men (many of whom have ASD traits). The result is that we are heading towards a society almost totally devoid of the wisdom of grandmothers. AFAIK that has never happened before in human history.

That might seem tangential to the issue of free speech on the internet, but I think it is connected, in the sense that if speech is seen to threaten men's sexual freedoms (to mimic women for pleasure, or to access the desired number and variety of women, or to sexualise children), then that speech will be shut down. As we are seeing currently, with reddit shuttering r/gendercritical while leaving up subs dedicated to documenting and eroticising rape and female sexual trauma for male pleasure.

People who say 'How can women talking critically about gender be 'hate speech', while rape pornography is not?' are missing the point. 'Hate speech' is the pretext for what is really the assertion of male sexual freedom as the supreme value: rape porn is obviously protected under such a rubric, while women talking about paraphilias and child protection is a threat, so reddit's logic is entirely consistent.

I don't discount the impact of other factors here, not least of which is the wholesale abandonment of enlightenment values on the left, and the widespread mob madness induced by social media, which seems designed to cultivate our worst instincts.

I just wonder what we are going to do about it. It feels like everything is rapidly intensifying. New and creative thinking on the part of feminists is required.

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Eveta · 30/06/2020 15:04

I agree op. I've been thinking about this recently, ie the power these companies have in controlling discussion and information, and positioning it in the direction they want.

Collidascope · 30/06/2020 15:02

Also, UK-based. And despite shared language and TV etc, UK and US cultures still have significant differences.

Collidascope · 30/06/2020 15:00

I feel like your first post is almost too smart and well-informed, Donkey! Feel like I need to do some proper reading before chipping in with a half-arsed thought.

It does show why so many people are furious with Mumsnet though, doesn't it? A predominantly female space where free speech is permitted in a way that the male-controlled forums would never allow.

I don't know what the solution is though.

BovaryX · 30/06/2020 14:56

There is a section in The Madness of Crowds on precisely this issue, titled The Impact of Tech. Silicon valley is dominated by a specific, narrow, political dogma. Tech is not neutral. Its moderators are not neutral. Do a search for 'women killed in 2020.' What do you notice about the results? Do a search for 'straight couples.' The latter is an example from Murray's book. What do you notice about the results?

there is a phrase variously attributed to the Danish computer scientist Morten Kyng or the American futurist Roy Amara, that the one thing we can say with certainty about the advent of new technologies it is that people overestimate their impact in the short term, and underestimate their impact over the long term The Madness of Crowds

OhHolyJesus · 30/06/2020 14:47

I need to read more on this to engage effectively, but it's a really interesting area. I just need to learn more - maybe it ties in a bit with toxic femininity? Sort of?

"Toxic masculinity also makes women feel locked into a performance of their gender bereft of the normal impulses we have toward independence, sexual agency, anger, volume, messiness, ugliness, and being a tough bird to swallow."

If women display toxic feminine traits then these are tactics women use to survive oppressive misogyny—or they suffer from internalized misogyny."

www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/sex-sexuality-and-romance/201908/toxic-femininity

I need to have a think...will be back to read more here though.

dayoftheclownfish · 30/06/2020 14:40

This is a really important issue. But what also needs to be taken into account is the business model of the giant tech companies, the FANGs.

Will it be worth it to them financially to shut out and piss off so many women?

DonkeySkin · 30/06/2020 14:33

Shamelessly bumping in the hope that others will want to talk about this. This is serious stuff.

@RoyalCorgi said in the gendercritical thread:

My fear is that eventually feminists will be banned from all the major public platforms. Twitter has already removed numerous outspoken feminists. Facebook frequently deletes feminist content, though there are mercifully some gender critical groups on there. If TRAs keep targeting advertisers, and they carry on withdrawing from MN, my worry is that MN will have to close down (or remove the feminism boards). Eventually there might not be any online spaces where feminists can talk.

I think this is what's happening, but can we turn it around?

@NonnyMouse1337 had some interesting suggestions in the same thread:

I think in the near future there will be growing political discussions on how we as a society deal with social media platforms in terms of free speech and the rules of censorship around it... Legislation and legal cases will be needed to bring tech giants and social media platforms to play by the same rulebook and have a base level of consistency in what's allowed and what isn't...

Anyway, these are just platforms. You can't shut down the internet. Women are resourceful and talented. There's no reason why alternatives can't be developed and used. I think that's what Spinster and Parler are for. It's a shame that people will end up in silos or echo chambers, but it will have to do for now...

If a rival was established that genuinely promoted free speech and applied rules and bans impartially and consistently, then it would see significant membership growth and revenue.

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