12 yr old DD. Gender Dysphoria, sudden announcement

OP you must be so worried 😟 I would expect that sort of behavior at 16, not 12.

Slightly missing the point but I wouldn't be happy about my 12 year old being on message forums at all (or being felt up at the back of a youth club for that matter).

She's 12!

Where will she be all day? She's upset and planning to be out of the house for 7 hours.

Check out Pique Resilience Project - four young detransitioned women who talk about their experiences

www.piqueresproject.com/

I know she's old enough for puberty and all to be upsetting her, but there are parents out there who took seriously stuff their child said aged three and began treating them differently. I have worked with children a lot and will never forget the day I was reading and chatting with some 6 year olds and, unheard by each other (in different groups at different times) one confided that he was really a tiger and another that she wasn't actually a girl but a fairy.

Now what would a supportive parent be expected to do in those cases to enable their child's inner reality?

Did your DD actually use the phrase gender dysphoric?! You have to wonder what she's been reading or watching or listening to in order to use that vocabulary.

I might have asked her how she knows and what it feels like, and just listen. She's very young yet, and just needs to know she's unconditionally lived and can talk to you about anything and be sure you'll listen.

Is she actually asking you to do anything about it at the moment?

The mistake some parents make is getting over-involved at this point and being such enthusiastic advocates for their child that it becomes impossible for the child to back out if they change their mind.

I'd say do your reading, but employ a loving, watchful, patient, waiting approach. Certainly don't be bounced or rushed into anything, or let her be.

We live in interesting times!

You can find anecdotal accounts of people whose child has come out the other side of this and accepted themselves as gay instead. Can you maybe get her info on female role models who are non stereotypical, pictures, bios, achievements? Get her to question what it is about her that she feels cannot be a female trait, find females who have that trait. That's what I would do if I were in that situation myself. Talk logically, find as much scientific material as you can.

I have become aware today of a Reddit group called Trans Adoption. It is for young people who consider themselves Transgender and are not supported by parents. The idea is that they are "adopted" for online support by an adult. This used to happen on the Mermaids young people's group. I don't know if it still does.

Well I hope this helps, it's from my own experience years ago. I know the situation has changed with so much easy access to information and impact of social media, but it might give an insight into her head

12 is not very early to think this way. I think for me it started around age 9 when I moved up to middle school which was much more sexist. Girls and boys separated for everything, although many of my best friends had been Male before then. Obsession with boobs and looks in the girls changing rooms. Bullying even from teachers because girls should not be good at stuff, especially maths

So I wanted to be a boy, I was just as good as them. I was always happy to play Zukko if you are of that generation.

As time goes on , In my dreams I was always a boy. Actually, often still am. All the stories I read were sci fi,with no female characters back then either. I just wasn’t into things like make up and the music and tv that other girls liked.

And as for hormones, periods and boobs. Totally horrific. Totally unwanted. Boys get to keep their bodies, I had a razor blade ( used for models) and was very tempted to put it to other use - ideas that I formed without any input from social media

What happened next? My dad let me do lots of stuff that other girls wouldn’t touch , DIY and car maintenance, he brought computers home for me to play with. He always told me that other people were just stupid or scared or jealous if we encountered sexism. He just constantly reinforced the message that I should do what I wanted, and that there would always be friends and family who loved me that way. He turned up at school and forced them to add pure maths to their a level options as I would need it for my future. This school was not the high school associated with my middle school, my parents changed that too for me.

I told this very recently on here, but one memorable day we were servicing the car. And he couldn’t get to the oil filter, but it turned out my smaller girls hands would fit just fine, showing that female biology isn’t always a disadvantage . I was so chuffed.

It took till early 20’s for me to become reconciled to being female. Because no matter what I did, that’s what the world saw. I couldn’t change me to fit in, there was nothing wrong with me , and I was just going to bloody well show them that.

Much older now, and I think I have achieved that. Smug. And unlike those who may chose to transition today, i have my health, which means a lot as you reach the menopausal age. I have achieved without changing me at all, physical or mental.

Agree very much with nearly everything said.

12 does seem very young, but there is some much media coverage of trans issues and who knows what on social media.

Although this might seem a bit basic and you may already have done this but as she had thought she was lesbian but is now saying she's trans is it worth just having the discussion that they are not the same thing. ie being lesbian is about being sexually attracted to another women / girl. Has she lost those feelings?

There are some interesting videos from the Lesbian Strength March last year. Whether you watch them together or individually and then talk about them (if she wants!). www.youtube.com/channel/UCuU_ArcIWrBmHlqyY5pww5Q/videos

And also add in info from the Detransition Advocacy Network as it puts the other side of the transition arguement. www.detransadv.com/resources

And as others have said up thread explote what gender means. And why it is that society seems to have set rules that both sexes are expected to fit into, but how every generation has had people who have resisted conforming but not felt the need to do anything to their bodies. eg Gentelman Jack

Social media has much to answer for, though there was a thread on here that seemed to show that lockdown had helped some young women away from the influence of school and realised that weren't trans! www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3952739-The-effect-of-lockdown-on-transitioning-teen-girls

I agree there has been some excellent advice, particularly from hoodathunkit.

Try not to feel overwhelmed OP, yes TRAs do occupy a proportion of online space but there is a lot of positive and affirming LGB content out there too. I wish the lesbian YouTubers Rose and Rosie had been around when I was young.

Some excellent advice here OP, DuDuDu especially, really like how practical your post is. My DD will be 12 soon, they're still so, so young and the wrong message on this could be very damaging.

I don't always agree with Sapphos views however I do agree that it must be hard to find lesbian role models for her, so she can see it's ok to "just be".

All the best

You can get through this though, we’re here to cheerlead you (and your daughter) through the next however long.

Most adolescents throw out some obstacles at some point, this is your DD’s version.

I think some gentle questioning is in order to help her and yourself what she means by gender dysphoric.

Feeling uncomfortable within yourself during puberty is completely normal and not necessarily indication of a deeper pathology.

I think all you can do is be broadly supportive about whatever it is she is questioning but draw the line at anything harmful such as breast binders.

Also don't hand too much power to her (out of fear of name calling or whatever) because it might actually feel quite scary to her. At 12 she is still very much a young child and they do need boundaries even if they push against them.

Hi, my DD is 13 and has many non binary/ gay/ bi friends.
I introduced her to 80’s pop culture and the gender bending that went on.
Also talk a lot about fashion through history, men wearing wigs, high heels and make up. Ancient Egypt where everyone wore eye liner.
The way women are indoctrinated by the media to look and act a certain way.
Then left her to go google it all to prove me wrong.

Also told her how I felt as a teen, that would have done anything to ‘stop being a girl’ and never wanted children tell I was in my 30s.
We also look back on some stuff she did and said when she was
younger.

I know Helen, she’s great. And to be fair, she is right about gender being a load of bollocks - and sexist bollocks at that. I agree it would probably be counterproductive to say that to the OP’s DD just now though.

@HandsOffMyRights that's not an 'article' it's an opinion piece from prominent anti-trans campaigner Helen Saxby.

I've seen her speak before and she is very vocal about her view of gender being 'a load of bollocks'.

Not a very balanced message for the OP's DD.

My other advice would be keep reading threads here, there’s lots of good advice generally and you’ll learn who’s reliable and who isn’t in terms of posters and resources. Don’t be put off by people picking holes in other people’s advice and/or making this support thread about them, it happens a lot and most people here will be aiming to support you and your daughter.

Agree with the above.

Our rule has been nothing that causes, or has the potential to cause, permanent damage until adulthood (when it would become her own decision), so no binders, no hormones etc, and slow decisions on things that will be hard to undo (extreme haircuts and name changes on school registers etc).

We’ve looked for partway compromises, so a well fitting, minimising sports bra and buying new bits from the boys section is fine (and they are usually practical purchases anyway) but not throwing away all the old clothes at once.

Or, agreeing to use a short form of her actual name, or her initial, at home, but not taking a whole new male name.

Remember, the distress is likely real, but transition is statistically not likely to be the answer to that distress (most children who take on a cross sex identity in adolescence will desist).

So the aim is to calm the distress but not advance towards transition as the inevitable answer.

My only comment to add to these is to try to avoid grand gestures (chucking out and replacing all clothes etc), as that sort of thing creates a kind of feeling of obligation. Obviously, if you have to go shopping for some new trousers or something, let her choose whatever she wants as normal, haircuts etc. do whatever - but by keeping the changes small, and under her control, all her paths remain open, she won't feel that she's made a massive commitment to anything and can't change her mind.

OP

My advice to you would be the same advice that I would give to anyone who is concerned about a loved one getting involved with a cult.

The first rule is not to argue with or oppose your DD’s position. Your DD will have conflicting / ambivalent feelings about her position and if you become entrenched in one position it will leave her occupying the opposing position. This is especially true of older children and teens as conflict with parents is a natural part of growing up and kids finding their own way in life.

The second rule is to be honest about not knowing everything and to not try to convince your DD of anything. It is important to genuinely come from a place of not knowing and wanting to understand. Let you DD know that you are open to her educating you. Ask her opinion about this and other issues. Resist any impulse to argue.

The third rule is to stimulate your DD’s natural curiosity and to ask her to explain things about the gender issue that you do not understand. It is extremely important that your DD feels empowered by you and that she is the one doing the teaching and educating and that she is the one in control. Other readers here have posted suggestions about gender critical organisations to contact and I would suggest that you follow these up. Find some issues about safeguarding, the links between cults and TRA activists, whatever is suitable for your DD’s age, and ask her to educate you about the issue. You can honestly claim to be confused as the whole thing is complex and confusing. Do not argue, simply do your best to inspire an enthusiasm for research on the part of your DD. Be extremely careful not to oppose your DD or argue.

The whole point should be to encourage your DD to research things for herself and to retain the capacity to think. The capacity to retain and use cognitive faculties can be undermined by the various discourses promoted by the TRAs and it is essential to keep your DD on side and thinking.

I would even suggest arguing some of the TRA positions as a demonstration that you are engaging with the debate, e.g. “could it be right that being a man or a woman is simply a matter of what you think to be true rather than what your body indicates?” and “maybe Steffoknee really is a 6 year old girl?” “people say that this JY person is a bully but others say that is just transphobia - what do you think?” etc.

The way that cults operate is that they provoke and instigate conflict between their followers and the families of their followers. They are skilled at creating and environment in which familial alienation occurs, at which point they separate their victims from their families and exploit them. The worst thing that a family can do is to feed into this by entering into arguments and conflict with their loved one.

Stay supportive, stay thinking and keep communications channels open.

Just my 2p worth

All the best