Page 17 | Why r/GenderCritical was banned by Reddit

MadBadDaddy · 2020-06-29T22:38:43+00:00

Hi! TRA here! Thought I'd take a quick breather from all the crowing, high-fiving, etc. to throw a lifeline to any *actual* open-minded critical thinkers wondering *why* Reddit banned r/gendercritical. Basically, you have 2 options when it comes to what to believe: 1. It's a true conspiracy: silicon valley, hollywood & the media are in the thrall of the well-funded TransAgenda, the need for woke points, child-groomers, women-haters, MRAs, etc. etc. 2. r/GenderCritical was *hateful* - if you want *evidence* then go to r/GenderCynical which existed to harvest said hatefulness. Read their *strictly enforced rules* about hate speech, misogyny, anti-feminism, pile-ons, doxxing, etc. (NB: abbreviating "trans exclusionary radical feminist" is not considered hate speech on this subreddit) and then *sort their posts by "top" and "all time"* and judge for yourself. The trans men, trans women and non-binary people of Reddit do not hate women and do not tolerate abuse. Have a better day. x

LillianBland · 01/07/2020 20:22

@MadBadDaddy

contactusdeletus r/gendercritical was not a space you were welcome in. It was not a space intended for you. It was, in fact, specifically designed to offer an escape from your ideology, which many women find to be sexist by its very nature.

I don't think any trans people cared that it 'wasn't for us' or 'wanted in', but a lot of us did take exception to being routinely described as child-grooming attention-seeking misogynistic deluded perverts trying to take over the world (Trans Women) or poor helpless impressionable confused lesbians (Trans Men).

Discussing sex-based oppression as it relates to natal females is one thing, what r/GC spent 99% of its energy doing was quite another.

The distinction between 'idealogy' and 'people' was not at all distinct, and that's putting it mildly.

r/GC, as well as r/itsafetish and r/LGBdroptheT deserve all they get.

So you want to police what women say. Tough! The more you try to shut us up, the more we speak out and the more others become aware of your attempt to silence women. It must really frustrate you that women won’t do as they’re told.

Zinco · 01/07/2020 19:54

Going to repeat this...

So OP, if you think that this was just a normal moderation decision with the group not following the rules, OK.

But you do support open debate in principle?

You're against "no platforming" people?

You don't have any problem with people disagreeing with "TWAW"? Arguing against that? Debate is healthy?

Regardless of what happened on Reddit, do you think that there are other cases of people being unfairly silenced?

Original poster

MadBadDaddy · 01/07/2020 19:42

contactusdeletus
r/gendercritical was not a space you were welcome in. It was not a space intended for you. It was, in fact, specifically designed to offer an escape from your ideology, which many women find to be sexist by its very nature.

I don't think any trans people cared that it 'wasn't for us' or 'wanted in', but a lot of us did take exception to being routinely described as child-grooming attention-seeking misogynistic deluded perverts trying to take over the world (Trans Women) or poor helpless impressionable confused lesbians (Trans Men).

Discussing sex-based oppression as it relates to natal females is one thing, what r/GC spent 99% of its energy doing was quite another.

The distinction between 'idealogy' and 'people' was not at all distinct, and that's putting it mildly.

r/GC, as well as r/itsafetish and r/LGBdroptheT deserve all they get.

OP posts:

CoffeeTeaChocolate · 01/07/2020 19:41

MadBadDaddy, it sounds like you sometimes have a hard time and I feel bad for you. It is understandable that you don’t want any more pain.

What I fail to understand is how you, a) on a broader scale can be so happy that GC was deleted when so many horrific rape /porn subs remains? And b) how in the quest to get away from your own pain you seem to fail to consider that your very method to do this (entering female sex only spaces) may increase the pain for other vulnerable females (rape survivors, prisoners, young girls)?

It is great that you are here engaging. It is just a bit sad that this thread came on the back of a forum deletion which many here found very hard. And that it came across as patronising. If a main trans forum got cancelled, my first thought would not be to find some trans women to explain in detail why I thought it was a good thing.

contactusdeletus · 01/07/2020 19:09

If you want to see powerful women's voices talking smack about the stuff that bugs them, there are plenty of options. My personal favourite is r/witchesvspatriarchy "the daughters of witches they failed to burn"

And what if you want a space exclusively for natal women and girls, where you can discuss the reality of sex-based oppression, using accurate sex-based pronouns if necessary? Where can you go then?

I've said it before and I'll say it again: r/gendercritical was not a space you were welcome in. It was not a space intended for you. It was, in fact, specifically designed to offer an escape from your ideology, which many women find to be sexist by its very nature.

None of your "many other options" could serve the same purpose. It says a lot that you think they could - that you can't see the problem at all, in fact. Your attitude is "well I don't need a space like that, and I can't imagine why anyone else would, so it shouldn't exist".

There are just some things that "bug" women that we can't "talk smack" about in mixed sex spaces.

Hulo · 01/07/2020 18:53

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

DeRigueurMortis · 01/07/2020 18:39

But my broader point on abusive banter applies.

What was your broader point?

I only saw you make a specific comment that implied that because you haven't seen that type of comment it it's usage is being over played by women.

Original poster

MadBadDaddy · 01/07/2020 18:33

DeRigueurMortis

Sorry, but I'm not here to say anything about Twitter, other than it is the bottom of the internet and we've all got our own horror stories. And I don't think I've ever blocked anyone, but that's probably because I don't really engage.

You're right, no-ones ever asked me suck anything online. I have mixed feelings on that. But my broader point on abusive banter applies.

OP posts:

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/07/2020 18:22

GC dug its own hole. If you want to see powerful women's voices talking smack about the stuff that bugs them, there are plenty of options. My personal favourite is r/witchesvspatriarchy "the daughters of witches they failed to burn"

Except most "feminist" subs ban GC women? I went on one the other day and forgot which one I was in, I was in a feminist question answering one, but not a radical feminist one, and I answered the question, but I wasn't sufficiently TWAW and I got banned within the hour.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/07/2020 18:16

And believe what you like, but I have yet to see a heartfelt "suck my appendage" type comment that seems to have captured the wider GC imagination.

We can link you some?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/07/2020 18:15

If anyone wants to get a taste of what most of the posts on r/gendercritical were like, I believe lots of them are available in an archive on rareddit.com

DeRigueurMortis · 01/07/2020 17:59

And believe what you like, but I have yet to see a heartfelt "suck my appendage" type comment that seems to have captured the wider GC imagination.

Perhaps because you're not going to be the recipient for that type of comment or because like many TRA's you've mass blocked women on Twitter and don't see what appears on their timelines?

Just go and look on JKR's Twitter.

Even when she's responding to drawings from young children some activists are posting vile tweets.

It's not a case of what I believe.

It's what I can see and what I've experienced.

Here's a link....

twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1277913768064843776?s=21

Original poster

MadBadDaddy · 01/07/2020 17:49

WeeBisom

I think 'full' is a strong word, but you certainly have a reputation.

Personally, I would describe it more as 'discomforting' for someone like myself, and that's just from lurking. I only decided to stick my neck out because I have direct experience of both sites, and I was drunk.

OP posts:

WeeBisom · 01/07/2020 17:29

@MadBadDaddy, a cursory glance at 'GenderCynical' shows multiple posts about Mumsnet. There's lots of accusations that Mumsnet is a hateful, transphobic website. So...are the women here supposed to accept that Mumsnet is just as 'hateful' as Gender Critical? Do you agree with Gender Cynical that Mumsnet is full of bigots?

Pertella · 01/07/2020 17:04

Funny how these threads turn out and what gets deleted.

Just a coincidence I'm sure.

Original poster

MadBadDaddy · 01/07/2020 17:02

[quote PacificState]@madbaddaddy I agree with you that too many posts on here come down to 'because trans' and I think that's transphobic.

I note your refusal to condemn the rape subs.

You cannot logically posit that GC was closed solely because it was hateful. The survival of rape subs when GC is closed clearly shows that this is not only about hateful content. If that was the metric, the rape subs would be banned.

In the absence of a proper explanation from Reddit, deep and violent misogyny is simply the most likely explanation for why one was banned while the other remains. Not hate.[/quote]
Any sub or board with words like 'rape' in the title is abhorrent, and also various euphemisticaly titled 'dark humour' subs (some of which I think have been recently banned). Sad that I have to make this clear but I understand.

I'm on several 'trans' subs. If I saw any hint of sexual or violent threats or even 'dark humour' I would not let it slide, and I can't imagine anyone else I hang out with would either. If they did I would have a go at them too. In any case the mods would jump all over it, because you can bet your bones we are scrutinised.

But I literally never see it. I see no signs of a seething hotbed of rage, frustration or resentment. Sometimes I see mod-deleted comments, but if I check the replies they usually look like trolls.

And believe what you like, but I have yet to see a heartfelt "suck my appendage" type comment that seems to have captured the wider GC imagination.

And while I'm at it....no, not many think that it's transphobic for a lesbian to not sleep with someone with a penis. There was a massively long and detailed thread on r/asktransgender yesterday from someone asking "I have some uncomfortable questions... am I a T3RF?" and this was her question #6. There were 163 comments, some interesting, some dull, but I saw none that said "yes it is and yes you are"

GC dug its own hole. If you want to see powerful women's voices talking smack about the stuff that bugs them, there are plenty of options. My personal favourite is r/witchesvspatriarchy "the daughters of witches they failed to burn"

OP posts:

justanotherneighinparadise · 01/07/2020 16:07

I’m going to guess they’re still standing as no one is actively campaigning to get them taken down.

picklemewalnuts · 01/07/2020 16:02

So, is reddit going to get rid of everything else controversial on there? Everything inciting violence, abusive, nasty stuff you've agreed is there?

No?

I wonder why not. I wonder what the difference is between the vile threads that are allowed to stand, and gender critical women.

Can you explain?

Zinco · 01/07/2020 15:48

So OP, if you think that this was just a normal moderation decision with the group not following the rules, OK.

But you do support open debate in principle?

You're against "no platforming" people?

You don't have any problem with people disagreeing with "TWAW"? Arguing against that? Debate is healthy?

Regardless of what happened on Reddit, do you think that there are other cases of people being unfairly silenced?

MrGHardy · 01/07/2020 15:43

Lmfao either it is 'hate' or it is a 'conspiracy'.

That's the best you can do?

teawamutu · 01/07/2020 14:56

@MadBadDaddy

Thank you, Rufus

PacificState

You are free to take my statements at face value, or not.

Reddit's editorial policies are actively and constantly criticised, and your sentiments are echoed by many of the users themselves.

I didn't crash your party to be an ambassador or apologist for Reddit. Far from it, and I'm not here trying to win hearts and minds either.

There's an old pop-psychology book called 'Games People Play' and one of the 'games' is called "Ain't it Awful" which is like a self-soothing communal catastrophising. I posted what I did because I was being painfully reminded of it whenever I lurked around these and other boards, and the punchline was always "because trans-people". To me, it's like watching self-harm.

So don't watch?

thatwouldbeanecumenicalmatter · 01/07/2020 14:29

to throw a lifeline to any actual open-minded critical thinkers

Lol, this coming from a TRA.

Thanks for the sunlight anyway 👍

Prawnofthepatriarchy · 01/07/2020 14:29

In a weird way I find the banning of Reddit's GenderCritical encouraging. It's very clear to me that JKR's Tweets and blog post (and even more the attacks on her) have caused a massive increase in awareness. Women who didn't think it mattered to them are seeing that it most definitely does.

New women are flooding into Twitter and Reddit to learn and speak out. Even my Twitter has seen a marked increase over the past weeks in followers with new accounts.

Reddit, a misogynist cesspit, obviously deleted GC to prevent women from talking and sharing. It's not going to work. But the banning - and things like this very thread - show the gender critical viewpoint is gaining traction across the net.

LemonadeAndDaisyChains · 01/07/2020 14:08

This isn't about "shutting women up"

I get this - it's what I've been saying all along.
It's the undercurrent, nothing to do with whether you're a man, or a woman (how would we even know who is or isn't on here anyway?)
You don't "see" it though unless you have an eye opening moment.
Admittedly, it's nowhere near as bad as those disgusting examples you quoted on here, but the undercurrent is still there (although if that's the kind of thing that was being posted on Reddit, how the hell can people be up in arms over the sub reddit going with cries of "but free speech?")
Free speech fair enough, but hate speech/inciting speech like that?
Ugh no
Genuinely not trying to be goady, this is honestly my opinion.

DeRigueurMortis · 01/07/2020 14:07

You cannot logically posit that GC was closed solely because it was hateful. The survival of rape subs when GC is closed clearly shows that this is not only about hateful content. If that was the metric, the rape subs would be banned.

As would GenderCriticalGuys, the content of which echoed same sentiments of the main GC sub Reddit.

The key difference is who was posting on it.