Why r/GenderCritical was banned by Reddit

I'm not sure where anti-semitism fits into this discussion PacificState.

And, honestly, I think we could do with more trans voices on this board

We'll have to disagree on that. I've been on this board long enough to have seen numerous trans allies/partial allies/curious about debate types come and go.

Practically all end up expending the time and energy of women going around in circles whilst they seek to undermine us by saying one thing here then posting screenshots etc... in other groups or targeting individual women by DM.

Others have claimed allyship whilst contributing to official legislation that further damages sex based rights of women and girls in a complete 180 from what they might post here.

You might find that cynical but really it's just realism at this point having been down this road many times before.

Not sure why people are falling for it.

MadBadDaddy admittedly trolls this board and gloats openly about women losing one of the few spaces they had on the internet to discuss sex-based oppression. I struggle to see him as 'one of the good ones', or his presence as any way a benefit to this board.

"If we're so organised who are our spokespersons? Our lobbyists? Paris Lees? Kaitlyn Jenner?"

You don't need them on social media, dogma is created by those bullying the others the most. Then you just need a few more known people to say something and ta da, suddenly it is out there.

It is what Russia does, they pay people to come up with random shit, get the next little local news to pick it up and by the time it reaches the official state news it magically has a history of sources.

I'm reluctant to answer on behalf of the OP @OvaHere but I read 'TRA here!' as a defensive 'I know this is what you're going to say about me so I'll get in there first' rather than a literal self-description. Just like I tend to say I'm old or overweight in case someone else is thinking it. Upvoting or downvoting on Reddit (which I think is all the OP has spoken about doing) is hardly the wildest reaches of political activism.

And, honestly, I think we could do with more trans voices on this board; I think the OP has been thoughtful and responsive; and I'm tired of fighting trans people when I think we should be sticking it to violent men. The OP is the only trans voice on this thread (that we know of) and I don't think they should be expected to answer for the actions of all trans people and all trans-rights advocates everywhere, ever. I think there's a really interesting read-across to anti-semitism here - expecting Jewish people to answer for the actions of Israel every time they open their mouths. It's not, fundamentally, fair.

Saying that there aren't groups of TRAs meeting to strategise clearly isn't true.

That essentially describes Stonewall, Mermaids and the like. They are quite explicit about that.

And it obviously goes further. All the no platforming, attempts to stop women meeting, shutting down of Allison Bailey's crowdfunder, Sarah Phillimore's medium page, the endless Twitter bans etc. It goes on and on.

None of happened with the odd phone call or two.

The problem for women is that all of the strategising is about shutting women up, not positively advancing the rights of trans people.

Ask the average woman in the street 'who do you think is lobbying on behalf of women's rights' and she'd say 'eh?'
Very true

I really think we have to stop seeing all trans people as some sort of secret cabal who hold meetings to discuss tactics.
and agree

I really think we have to stop seeing all trans people as some sort of secret cabal who hold meetings to discuss tactics.

Not sure if this was aimed at me but I'm perfectly aware many trans people will have no interest in politics. The OP has indicted they don't have a lot of political interest although they do describe themselves as a TRA.

However I do object to individuals within the trans community working towards shutting down women's spaces and women's orgs whilst claiming ignorance of the political aims of the trans lobby.

If you don't know the full breadth of what women are concerned about including the politics behind it how can you claim that women's concerns are unfounded to the point they must be shut down?

I think it's entirely possible that some high profile people lobby very effectively for what they see as necessary advances to trans rights AND that the vast majority of trans people are just going about their lives not feeling particularly connected to those efforts or those lobbyists. Both things can be true.

Ask the average woman in the street 'who do you think is lobbying on behalf of women's rights' and she'd say 'eh?'

I really think we have to stop seeing all trans people as some sort of secret cabal who hold meetings to discuss tactics.

MadBadDaddy, I'd still really like an answer to my question from last night.

You said:

'You're right, no-ones ever asked me suck anything online. I have mixed feelings on that.'

I asked if that was a joke. And if so, whether you could see how utterly inappropriate it was. Can you explain what you meant?

I go to the supermarket, I go to the pub (pre-covid, obvs.), I interact with men & women, gay & straight, cis & trans and it's just...normal? I mean, as normal as it can be if you are trans, but I don't feel like my existence is a slap in anyone's face.

And that's exactly how it should be. I'm not offended by your existence. I don't know many people who are. That's why I talk about the ideology rather than people. And I am well aware that not all trans people subscribe to everything said or done in their name.

If we're so organised who are our spokespersons? Our lobbyists? Paris Lees? Kaitlyn Jenner?

Are you really so unaware of who is politicking in your name?

Stephen Whittle - decades of lobbying, involved in original GRA and the establishment of the Yogyakarta Principles and Press for Change

Christine Burns - Press for Change & Helen Belcher - Trans Media Watch both these organisations are why male crime is now reported in the media as female crime including rape.

Burns has also been heavily involved with healthcare so there will be a connection to NHS guidelines there that are not in the best interests of women.

Heather Peto - Labour Party member and candidate, involved in the move to make All Women Shortlists de-facto mixed sex.

Freddy McConnell - currently taking a case to the Supreme Court to be recognised as the father on their child's birth certificate. This has serious implications for all kinds of women because it would pave the way for TW to co opt legal status of mother from the women that birthed their children. It also has strong implications for surrogacy legislation and their is some evidence that Freddy is in part being funded by the pro surrogacy lobby.

This is just a handful off the top of my head. There are a lot more. They may be lower profile and less glamorous than the Jenners of the world but they are doing a hell of a lot of damage to women.

You mean you hadn't noticed? Tsk.

Sadiq Khan a lobbyist for trans people?! Eh?

I interact with men & women, gay & straight, cis & trans and it's just...normal? I mean, as normal as it can be if you are trans, but I don't feel like my existence is a slap in anyone's face

This is probably because you're a man, tbh

As a woman, I can identify with just going out and interacting..... normally with other people regardless of whether man, woman, trans, don't think it's anything to do with being a man.
I certainly don't feel like my existence is a slap in the face for people, but appreciate some may feel like that.

No, no, nobody so obvious! Sadiq Khan, though....

It used to entertain me when people with obvious, blatant socialisation started mansplaining about how they've never experienced male socialisation.

But now I find it so tiresome.

I interact with men & women, gay & straight, cis & trans and it's just...normal? I mean, as normal as it can be if you are trans, but I don't feel like my existence is a slap in anyone's face.

This is probably because you're a man, tbh.

"TL/DR be kind."
How about you stop telling women what to do?

Hmmm. I think most of us are fine with trans issues. What we don't like is

1. redefinition of our material reality by someone else - "expanding the bandwidth of woman" without any discussion with people formerly known as women. Many of us have issues specifically related to our female bodies - its upsetting to be unable to discuss these or even have them recognised as specific issues that only affect one type of human.
2. that our needs for safety are dismissed, minimised and discounted. Many many women have been traumatised by abuse from men. We are expected to now say that isnt a risk, despite our experiences, to "be nice" and reduce that risk to certain types of males.
3. that we see the gains women have made being rolled back. Women losing places in sports teams to certain types of males. Awards for women being given to "part time" women. We had to work hard to get our place in the world recognised and it feels like it's being taken away.

None of these are about trans people and their right to be recognised. It's about women. It would be lovely if trans women could show solidarity and be nice to us, by recognising these are valid perspectives.

In my experience Trans people aren't really organised or political or even united. We're more likely to be worried about losing our families or jobs than we are of being raped or murdered. There is no r/Transpolitics We're not even a class - there's simply not enough of us, in fact a lot of us would rather be invisible. We're like spiders - more afraid of you than you are of us. If there is an 'ideology' then we didn't write it. If there is a war it is asymetrical.

Sorry this is absolute nonsense. Trans politics have been highly organised and have lobbied governments and organisations with extreme precision.

Obviously this isn't all trans people but it doesn't need to be. Even a smallish number of influential trans people has been enough to drive a mile wide hole through women's rights and protections.

As for 'be kind' women are under no obligation to be kind when it's clearly not in our best interests. Civility I think is the most you should expect.

I think it's very telling that you arrive here initially to gloat then make all kinds of demands of us to listen you and be kind in our own space. I've never once been to a trans forum/space to take up their time with expectations that they listen to me.