The effect of lockdown on transitioning teen girls

If you are gender non binary whatever - why alter your body to appear to be the opposite sex? Those born make don’t routinely have their willies chopped off do they but the girls try to remove their breasts. Why is this?

thank you @DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong - that is a very good article - I knew that this organisation and its leader had an agenda but seeing it all put down together like that tells a horrific story.

It does sound like rather than waiting to find out that her son was gay, the gay got 'cured'. Is this what the government meant when they talked about banning conversion therapy?
I still can't get my head around children and young people being encouraged or supported in taking dangerous hormone treatment (I didn't even cope well with the contraceptive pill) and to amputate healthy body parts to try and 'fix' themselves. I remember having a strong persistent feeling from a fairly early age that I didn't want children (and I wanted to do the same job as my dad). I thought that having children was absolutely something I was never going to do. I then met my future husband and 25 years on have three of the most amazing and beautiful children and I feel like it was the most right and perfect thing to do and love every minute I have with them. If I had been encouraged to act on that strong feeling at the time (especially if they promoted it as a fix to my horrid periods and erratic moods) I may have ended up doing something that I would regret for the rest of my life. Why are doctors being allowed to amputate healthy body parts on request? The young person I know that is going down the double mastectomy route had a big coming out as a lesbian a couple of years ago, then went off to university (this particular one seems to produce some very woke young people) - a big life change that can be quite discombobulating for many people - now she is 'gender queer'/non binary and wants to appear masculine. Everyone is publicly cheering her on and celebrating her bravery - I find that quite awful.

I saw an article on Today yesterday about how wonderful lockdowns was for trans kids because they were such victims at school and in the outside world. America has a very different take. That and gender reveal parties and photo shoot makeovers for their small kids.

I still hope for a change in the trend but like you say DuDu it's too soon to know. Without even searching I've seen two articles recently on 'ftm' girls who went as far as double mastectomies but have de-transed in their early twenties.

What kind of insane quack is allowed to carry out cosmetic mastectomies on children??

The affirmation-only stuff is still so new. We really have no idea as to how it will shake out long-term for these children, up until Green took charge of Mermaids kids weren’t transitioning prior to seeing a medical professional and ‘watchful waiting’ was the overwhelming advice professionals gave to parents and carers.

Now children arrive at GIDs fully socially transitioned, including having their names and sexual markers changed on their medical and school records.

It’s bonkers.

Get so used to seeing Mermaids pushing their agenda it comes almost as a shock these days to see the other side of the argument in a mainstream setting.

Of all the terrible shit around this ideology, the transing of children pains and depresses me most and the article makes clear how much has changed with the advent of the radical trans agenda.

From the article -

But Mermaids has not always been so strident in advocating for medical intervention. Indeed, when the charity was founded in 1995, bloggers on its website, identifying themselves as young ‘transsexuals’, would often urge caution.

One 22-year-old, writing under the name Sian, warned:
‘You need to be unusually mature for your age to be able to transition stably at a young age… A lot of young (around my age or younger) transsexuals seem to think deep down that someone has a magic solution to their problems. Like the rest of life as an adult, this isn’t true.’

An article on Mermaids published by Spiked today (by Jo Bartosch):

www.spiked-online.com/2020/07/03/mermaids-leading-children-up-the-trans-path/

journalist don't exist anymore - only trolls and shills sexist - some more highly paid than others.

What does this even mean.

@bishopgiggles - to be honest, I don't know exactly how it works!

And I wasn't entirely accurate with my statement - I should have said there is no religious education in STATE schools because most private schools are religious and there's plenty of it in there!

At my DSs' primary school, the Scripture teachers were from a range of Protestant churches in the locale. But I asked the Principal at one point "if a Muslim leader wanted to come in and teach their religion, would that be allowed?" And I believe the answer was yes, if no other religious organisation had already taken the slot.
I don't know whether Scientologists qualify though!

There is an alternative though - ethics classes are offered in some primary schools (including ours) - but you have to opt IN to these classes. And if you opt out of scripture, and don't opt in to ethics, then you have to do something like colouring in during the time period, so that you don't gain an educational advantage over those doing scripture or ethics.

Personally I would much rather see them introduce formal education in religious and cultural studies, that covers all the major world religions, than this situation.

DulangDulang where are the quitters now. It is so sad that there is this pool of people who are qualified to help and there are so many young people who need it.

It is also good and reassuring that there are many thoughtful practitioners still working there.

I have been similarly impressed by both Marcus and Susan Evans and the anonymous female clinicians who co-authored the letter for WPUK.

Such a shame that the people who seem to me to be best placed to help gender distressed children, adolescents and adults are ignored and/or sidelined in favour of the Mermaids-True-Believers types.

womansplaceuk.org/2020/02/17/the-natal-female-question/

There are clearly some very concerned professionals within GIDS past and present.

I know that when talking about my own stepdaughter’s gender difficulties I was encouraged, by a former GIDS psychologist (one of the 35 ‘quitters’) to keep her as far away from the service as humanly possible, because while there are still some very good, well rounded, open minded professionals there, as a parent you have no idea whether your kid will be assigned to one of them or not.

Better to try and access private talking therapy to talk about every topic BUT gender, and get them to the other side of puberty without risking permanent health consequences.

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/feb/23/child-transgender-service-governor-quits-chaos

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51806962

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/12/12/childrens-transgender-clinic-hit-35-resignations-three-years/

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/01/06/children-cannot-give-consent-transgender-treatment-nurse-launching/

Here in Australia, we don't have religious education in schools, it's proscribed - BUT there is the option of having any religious entity come into the school to teach "scripture", and the schools are not allowed to refuse - they must allocate a segment in the week for these classes. They are not taught by teachers but by religious volunteers, and what is taught is not overseen by the Education Dept here.

Wahhhhaaat? So could they have people from say 6 different religions coming each week? Could they be Scientologists?

DuDuDu I heard Dr David Bell speak at Holyrood. It is extraordinary that anyone could dismiss what he has to say.

He presents stats and case studies in a way that is inarguable. And yet they argue. I cannot understand how anyone could.

Sorry, yes, my "they did nothing wrong" was an inaccurate recollection - I knew that the general reaction of the clinic was to change very little as they believed there was nothing wrong (the director, at least) which is shocking given the results of the audit.

Missed the Stonewall link: www.vercida.com/uk/articles/stonewall-ceo-ruth-hunt

The Tavistock clinic did conduct a review, apparently, but it was an internal review and found nothing wrong.

Actually, if this is the thing I think you are referring to, it’s even worse than that!

The internal review was conducted by Dr David Bell and it found lots and lots of things wrong but the higher ups chose to ignore it.

David Bell spoke at the MCR Detransitioners event. He is still employed by the trust (he doesn’t work directly for GIDS) so he spoke in his personal capacity. He was very good, and expressed alarm that whatever it was that happened in 2014/2015 that caused FtM paediatric referrals to soar, many professionals show absolutely no curiosity in finding out what it was:

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2019/feb/23/child-transgender-service-governor-quits-chaos

www.feministcurrent.com/2020/01/09/detransitioners-are-living-proof-the-practices-surrounding-trans-kids-need-be-questioned/

So far I have found the CBBC programme about an FtM kid named Leo aired in November 2014

m.youtube.com/watch?v=0x_u2cs8DpI

and Stonewall officially added trans to their remit in February 2015.

Would be interested to hear from anyone who has noticed similar 2014/15 events in Australia/America/Northern and Central Europe.

Not Aristotle's brightest moment then!
If anything, XY is the aberration - although not really either. But without women there would be no birth, no reproduction, because men cannot carry a foetus. But there would be no conception without men either, so it's balanced.
So hardly an aberration.
The old Adam and Eve bunkum was just to keep women in second place.
However, men ARE seen as the default because they have never been discommoded by period cramps, being pregnant, giving birth or having to carry a breastfeeding baby around. That's the WOMAN's role. Men just keep on doing what they do regardless until they get hurt.

So much for progressive thinking.

This is a really interesting thread - especially the indications that the peer pot situation (I won't say pressure as such, just a "group dynamic" thing) is heavily involved in SOME kids' feelings that they might be trans.

I also object violently to the schools going behind that parents' backs - outrageous behaviour, and yes, WHERE is the safeguarding in all of this?
As for the clinicians involved, WHERE is the medical first principle of "First do no harm"?

The Tavistock clinic did conduct a review, apparently, but it was an internal review and found nothing wrong. Several clinicians left before the review, and more after, as they felt that the ethos of the clinic was definitely more about pushing the transition, and less about helping the kids work out if they were genuinely suffering from gender dysphoria, of something else was at play.

This post is a terrible mishmash of thoughts but anyway - I have a young relative who is autistic. She believes implicitly what she is taught by a teacher. Here in Australia, we don't have religious education in schools, it's proscribed - BUT there is the option of having any religious entity come into the school to teach "scripture", and the schools are not allowed to refuse - they must allocate a segment in the week for these classes. They are not taught by teachers but by religious volunteers, and what is taught is not overseen by the Education Dept here. My young relative went to scripture classes (default situation - you have to opt out of them) and immediately absorbed the lesson that "If you were bad you went to HELL!" which she played out with her dolls and had nightmares about. She is that suggestible. I'm sure she's not the only autistic child to be that way, or even the only child to be that way. I'm equally sure that Not All Autistic Children Are Like That - but her autism certainly plays a big part in her vulnerability to taking ideas on board.
If she were to come up against someone who told her she was trans, she would accept that and become trans - she would be one of the ROGD girls. She's right in the "danger zone" age now - and I really hope she gets through it safely.

PopperUppleton because, as Caroline Criado-Perez says in her book “Invisible Women”:

It appears NB stands for No Breasts. Why is the default male-looking?

@PastMyBestBeforeDate yes, you were both failed. Awful.

The thing is, if you take it to the extreme, we’re all non-binary really as no one conforms to the strict stereotypes that Mermaids like to spout with Barbie at one end or GI Joe at the other, so we’re all on that spectrum somewhere and therefore non-binary is nothing special.

I preferred it when “gender Identity” was known by its other name - personality!

Out of the 6 kids I knew from early teens who expressed gender issues, only 3 have transitioned. It's common to question your place in the world as a young teen. In some communities being trans has less stigma than being gay.

That said I know two ftm who have had phase one surgery and one is due the second op imminently (delayed due to covid) and are very happy. The crucial thing is support without encouraging, hard!

Well this is the point giant

Where are all the middle aged transmen? The ones who now it's more socially acceptable etc decided to become their true selves?

We know the workd is a dangerous place for women and girls. Spy cameras everywhere, porn, sexual harassment and rape even in.primary schools...

And where were these transwomen when women werent able to work or vote or access birth control etc?

Is there any anecdata about transgender/NB boys in secondary schools? Is it only girls?

It has seemed for a long time that the young ones are FtM and the older ones are MtF, when given TRA rhetoric about sexed brains etc it should surely be fairly even at all ages.