Stephen King retweets JKR

I do love the illogicality of saying you can't paint all transwomen with the same brush, because the problem is straight males. Is the next stage telling us we can't paint all straight males with the same brush?

Because either way we have a group of males which we rightly are able to exclude from certain things.

Robin1984

The same crime rate is linked here: twitter.com/NastySmurfette/status/1271526780961259520?s=20

Go Steve! 🙌

I looked through that and yes there are definitely people who are trans who are predatory and maybe even a tiny amount of predators who would pretend to be trans to get access to victims. But you can't paint them all with the same brush

But if we are essentially opening up women's single sex spaces to any man who wants to access them (which is what self id means, and is what Stonewall is campaigning for - the end of single sex exemptions in the Equality Act) then how are we supposed to know who are the predators and who are the genuine trans people?

Single sex spaces are all about tarring all people (ie men) with the same brush. As I said, my DH is not a threat to women, but he is not allowed in women's single sex spaces.

And yes obviously we know that it is men who are the threat. This is the whole point. Self-ID will enable predatory men to do what they do best which is to prey upon women. It’s already happening.

@robin1984

Ah, that's the thing. We (i.e. the GC "community", who have a very wide range of views and beliefs) are not "against" trans people. We are "for" protecting women's rights.

I couldn't give a toss what anyone wears, presents as or calls themself. Unless it cuts across a right that I and/or other women and girls have. That's where it gets ugly. The ditches I will die in are as follows:

Teenage girls should never be expected to accommodate a male-bodied person in spaces that are reserved for them. Puberty and teenagerdom are quite hideous enough, and one is quite self-conscious enough, without that.

Women's sports should only ever be for natal women. Hannah Mouncey, Rachel McKinnon, CeCe Telfer are, in my opinion, interlopers and cheats.

Women's refuges have to be for natal women only. Those women are fleeing male violence and they have a right to a space where they are guaranteed not to encounter male-bodied people. Transwomen and transmen need separate spaces.

All-women shortlists and awards should only be open to natal women. They have been established to counter the massive discrimination against women in public life and to open them to people who have been subject early in life to male socialisation and assumptions of entitlement is wrong.

Trans rights are human rights. Women's rights are human rights, too. Sometimes there are conflicts between the two. Those conflicts may need to be resolved in court. The solution is not that women's rights should always cede to trans rights.

But what do they all have in common, Benny?

"Why such impassioned opposition against trans people when they are the vulnerable the majority of the time?"

medium.com/@rebeccarc/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-activists-a-story-in-screenshots-78e01dca68d
The vulnerability just jumps right out at you.

Benny, the point is that what the people who are predatory all have in common is that they are MALE. As we can't tell which males are predatory and which aren't on first glance, we want to be able to have certain spaces in which no males are allowed.

As a pp said upthread:

Could you please define 'trans person' here please?

98% of sexual offences are carried out by males. For this reason we have sex segregated spaces and people generally don't have a problem with this. Men as a class are a high risk group and women as a class are a low risk group. It is for this reason that my DH for example, who is a wonderful man and not a threat to women, is not allowed in female spaces. Because he is of the class that is a threat to women, and women may not feel safe in his presence because they don't know he isn't a threat. And also, some women are just not comfortable being vulnerable around males. And everyone is fine with this, as they should be.

So what I want to know, and what no one can ever seem to answer, is at what point does a male who 'identifies as female' come out of the high risk category of male and into the low risk category of female? Is it full SRS? Top surgery? Hormones? Wearing a dress? Long hair? Makeup? Or is is simply if they declare themselves a woman? And if it is the last then can you not see a problem with that, that is could be abused? Where is the line? How are women supposed to know who the 'genuine transwomen' are and who might not be?

But just like to say I have had my mind changed somewhat tonight for what it's worth. Seems to be an incredibly polarised issue now though unfortunately with few people looking to accommodate or compromise on either side of the argument

@SirSamuelVimesBlackboardMonito

I looked through that and yes there are definitely people who are trans who are predatory and maybe even a tiny amount of predators who would pretend to be trans to get access to victims. But you can't paint them all with the same brush

Why such impassioned opposition against trans people when they are the vulnerable the majority of the time?

Have you given any thought to vulnerable women who don't want men in women's spaces?
Seriously, who gave you the idea that it's for men to decide which of you get to use women's spaces?

Reading through this is so depressing. Benny appreciate your input and I’m sure you’re a well meaning person, but welcome to terfdom mate. I’ve seen this so much especially on Twitter, people arguing what they think are the opposite points to gender critical women but are actually just saying the same shit that we’ve been getting rape threats for. It just feels so demoralising that people actually have no idea what’s going on under the new Trans regime but are coming along to try and educate us out of our transphobia.

Most of the people on this board are supportive of trans people and trans rights. We’re just doing what you are doing and trying to come up with solutions that don’t compromise our own rights and safety. Unfortunately this is not allowed at all according to TRAs as any distinction made between transwomen and biological women is hateful.

Planet Fitness. Turned out the male in question had a history of discussing his perversions online and had a fetish for listening to women urinate, so the woman’s pervert radar was spot on. No matter. She was the one barred.
Benny, you have no idea. Absolutely no idea. I hope you will go away from this conversation having learned something.

Why such impassioned opposition against trans people when they are the vulnerable the majority of the time? Just don't get it, straight men are far more of a threat.

Could you please define 'trans person' here please?

98% of sexual offences are carried out by males. For this reason we have sex segregated spaces and people generally don't have a problem with this. Men as a class are a high risk group and women as a class are a low risk group. It is for this reason that my DH for example, who is a wonderful man and not a threat to women, is not allowed in female spaces. Because he is of the class that is a threat to women, and women may not feel safe in his presence because they don't know he isn't a threat. And also, some women are just not comfortable being vulnerable around males. And everyone is fine with this, as they should be.

So what I want to know, and what no one can ever seem to answer, is at what point does a male who 'identifies as female' come out of the high risk category of male and into the low risk category of female? Is it full SRS? Top surgery? Hormones? Wearing a dress? Long hair? Makeup? Or is is simply if they declare themselves a woman? And if it is the last then can you not see a problem with that, that is could be abused? Where is the line? How are women supposed to know who the 'genuine transwomen' are and who might not be?

Most TW are straight men 🤦🏻‍♀️

This would never happen, you would scream and he'd be dealt with

Fucking hell, do you realise you’re essentially telling sexual assault victims that they should have screamed louder so the attackers would be dealt with.

I mean, I’m sure that’s not how you meant it, but that is literally how it comes accross

by this logic would you be happy to accept very male looking trans men into these spaces as you consider them women?

Happy to accept a female into a female space? Of course. It’s a female space. For females.

by this logic would you be happy to accept very male looking trans men into these spaces as you consider them women?

Is it all about passing then, for you? Interesting. Because we sure as hell aren't happy to let very male looking male men into those spaces, which appears to be what the TRAs want?

Just don't get it, straight men are far more of a threat

Statistically they’re the same level of threat.

I’d love to see your evidence that they’re less of a threat than straight men.

Drums nails whilst patiently waiting

This would never happen, you would scream and he'd be dealt with.

You would scream and he'd be dealt with........until gender self ID is introduced. Under self ID - you scream, and then they say they identify as a woman - aka they ARE a woman - and you're called a nasty transphobe, or asked to leave yourself. A woman was famously banned from a gym (Planet something or other) for objecting to a male in a female changing room.

You really don't know what you're talking about - or what women are dealing with here - do you?

We know it's men who are the threat. Has this just occurred to you? We want to be separated from men linguistically, legally, and in some circumstances, physically. That's the whole fucking point!