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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Women have a huge privilege compared to trans women

135 replies

IDanielRadcliffe · 28/06/2020 14:47

www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/transgender-diary-women-have-huge-privilege-compared-transwomen/

I think DT manages to be both racist and sexist this week.

OP posts:
Kimlek · 28/06/2020 16:03

Thanks for posting the whole article. They are right though, I for one definitely don’t see how women are privileged women are underprivileged when compared with men, they have a huge privilege compared to transwomen. I’m not sure that they understand, or acknowledge, that privilege

SerendipityJane · 28/06/2020 16:02

TL;DR: Is a whingey It's your fault you can't call a square a circle

Fanthorpe · 28/06/2020 16:01

I find this conflation of racism with ‘transphobia’ really hard to understand.

Mrsmorton · 28/06/2020 15:59

In the immortal words of Magdalen Berns. Fuck off you wanker.

CatandtheFiddle · 28/06/2020 15:59

Conclusion:

The only way you can assert that transwomen are the most oppressed is if you ignore the everyday experience of women and girls.

CatandtheFiddle · 28/06/2020 15:58

Transwomen face sky-high rates of harassment, abuse and violence

I wonder how that writer would define:

  • Average of 2 women murdered each week by domestic partners/ex-partners
  • Lifetime loss in earnings of at least 15% compared with men
  • Misogyny not a hate crime
  • Women & girls' ordinary everyday experience of harassment, catcalling, "minor" sexual assault (flashing etc)
  • Only 2% of rapists ever convicted

And how many women in the UK are made redundant while pregnant?

JemimaShore · 28/06/2020 15:57

I find it fascinating that an MRA (as OvaHere said, this person wrote a book about men's rights some years ago) - has actually decided to transition into a woman. MRAs are indistinguishable from TRAs these days.

Man lives for 60 years, successful writing career as a male, marries, has children, divorces, then decides he should have been a woman all along, and transitions. And spews a thinly disguised sexist narrative in the Telegraph - all about clothes and makeup, and "budding breasts" Envy - and claims not only that he now knows all about the reality of being a woman, but ALSO that he more oppressed than women. (see also: Jane Fae)

It's really quite grim.

bluebluezoo · 28/06/2020 15:56

Fucking hell. They really don’t get that this is what women face every day, do they?

They really think women walk around without a care in the world, while catcalling, harrassment and violence is only rained down on transwomen.

Unbelievable.

LookAtTheCahhOlivahhhhh · 28/06/2020 15:55

Poor thing, missing out on 30 years of being harassed for being a woman.
I had no idea that being normal, feminine and unthreatening would protect me from all that. Darn this silly little woman brain!

CuriousaboutSamphire · 28/06/2020 15:55

Oh, so he really DID say he understood the issues of being black, cos he is trans. He really did.

And he can call himself what he wants. The rest if the world can choose not to.

Self centered fuckwittery...

ErrolTheDragon · 28/06/2020 15:55

Is this person living in a parallel universe? In the one I inhabit, it's women women such as JKR and the Baroness are being harassed and abused (in addition to all the normal, unnewsworthy harassment, abuse and violence towards countless ordinary women).

That's just what I got from the bit that doesn't need subscription.

NotDonna · 28/06/2020 15:55

They’ve never been harassed? Wow! I bet they can’t find another female at the same age as themselves who can say that!! It’s laughable.
But what I don’t understand, is why anyone would want to identify as a woman if they don’t like them, as suggested by @OvaHere?

FFSFFSFFS · 28/06/2020 15:54

the difference between walking down the street as an apparently normal man, and doing so as a trans woman. As a man, I did so unthinkingly, without fear

How lucky he was to be able to walk down the street without feeling fear ever.

Dickhead.

thegcatsmother · 28/06/2020 15:51

Here it is in all its glory. It made my hackles rise yesterday. I had some sympathy with the author to date, but no longer. Yet another bloody man telling women how they should think and feel.

My transgender diary: ‘Women have a huge privilege compared to transwomen’

With more harassment of transwomen hitting the headlines, Diana's mind is permanently engaged in the job of trying to avoid it
By Diana Thomas 25 June 2020 • 11:00am

'One of the discoveries one makes when transitioning is not how much changes, but how little. For example, no amount of oestrogen can dim my passion for American football. So most lunchtimes, I log on to the NFL Network, the TV channel of the National Football League, and catch up on the latest news, gossip and opinions.

The past few weeks, in the wake of the death of George Floyd, have been particularly instructive, as a sports channel has suddenly become very political. The NFL depends on black players, and I say ‘black’ rather than ‘players of colour’ because that is how the players themselves have been identifying.

They’re making their race unmistakable. And since all major league sportsmen and women in the USA have a university education, they’re doing so with an intelligence that matches their passion and rage.

Now, you may be wondering where I’m going with this, and thinking, ‘Oh Lord, she’s not going to claim that being trans means she can understand what it means to be black, is she?’

No, I wouldn’t dream of being so offensively presumptuous. But listening to people talk about being black in a white society has made me think in new ways about being trans in a gendered society.

So, for example, a former player said that he didn’t want to be referred to as African-American, because ‘White people aren’t called European-Americans. They are just American, so why can’t black people just be Americans too?’

That made me wonder why I call myself a trans woman, rather than just a woman, plain and simple. To some extent it’s an assertion of my specific identity, a refusal to be ashamed of who and what I am.

But as much as I want to be myself, I also want to be accepted by society as a normal human being. I suspect that the further my transition progresses, the more I’ll just want to be called a woman, full stop.

Some people – including some very famous people – have a hard time accepting that idea. They see it as a threat. That’s deeply upsetting, but it’s a real issue for people like me, and I’m just going to have to deal with it.

Likewise, player after player pointed out that their white team-mates never had to consider their race as an issue in their everyday lives. But a black football star, no matter how rich or famous, is still black. And he, his partner and his children all have to deal with the consequences of that.

Well, I’ve experienced the difference between walking down the street as an apparently normal man, and doing so as a trans woman. As a man, I did so unthinkingly, without fear. But as a trans woman, even one with nice clothes, a great surgeon and fancy hair, I never, ever entirely lose the awareness and anxiety that comes with confronting a world that I know can be very hostile indeed.

Transwomen face sky-high rates of harassment, abuse and violence. It hasn’t happened to me yet. But it only has to happen once, the possibility is always there, and part of my mind is permanently engaged in the job of trying to avoid it by appearing normal, feminine and unthreatening.

Finally, I think of a player from the New Orleans Saints called Malcolm Jenkins, who also leads a political group called Players Coalition, which lobbies for reform to the education and criminal justice systems.

One of Jenkins’ white teammates, whom he had always held in high regard, made some uncharacteristically crass comments about black players’ disrespecting the American flag. Wiping away the tears, Jenkins said, ‘If you don’t understand how hurtful, how insensitive your comments are, you are part of the problem… You’re somebody who doesn’t understand their privilege.’

Well, I know that feeling. I am hugely fond of and dependent on my sisters and female friends. But those very people sometimes say things that they don’t intend to be hurtful, but that cut deep just the same.

I think the problem arises from the fact that while women are underprivileged when compared with men, they have a huge privilege compared to transwomen. I’m not sure that they understand, or acknowledge, that privilege, though the hurtful comments often presume it.

But it’s real. It’s a problem. And that’s another whole conversation.'

teaandtoast123 · 28/06/2020 15:47

At least they differentiate between women and transwomen in the headline.

MrsNoah2020 · 28/06/2020 15:44

I honestly think the column has been commissioned by some secretly GC editor, to expose the hypocrisy and narcissism of TRAs. It reads as if, every week, DT goes through the Trans Widows threads and decides to showcase a new aspect of their partners' fuckwittery.

SerendipityJane · 28/06/2020 15:41

Considering how desperate some people are to be taken seriously as women, it's incredible how much bollocks they spout.

TheSingingKettle49 · 28/06/2020 15:39

Really? Really???? Do you want to go back in time and tell my 11 year old self that, like when I was having sexual obscenities shouted at me on the way to school and when I told trusted adults how it made me feel I was told to take it as a compliment and I’d be upset if they didn’t shout anything at me?

Or at every job interview I’ve had (too many to remember) where I’ve been asked if I’m planning to have kids or if I’m married?

They just have no idea what it is to be a woman, if they did they wouldn’t transition.

JellyfishandShells · 28/06/2020 15:33

and part of my mind is permanently engaged in the job of trying to avoid it by appearing normal, feminine and unthreatening

Because that works for women trying to avoid harassment and violence, hmm DT ?

howard97A · 28/06/2020 15:29

“Women have a huge privilege compared to transwomen”

I’m not sure that ‘privilege’ is the right word, but I’m sure that there are situations in which women find it helpful to know which sex they are.

NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace · 28/06/2020 15:28

One of the discoveries one makes when transitioning is not how much changes, but how little. For example, no amount of oestrogen can dim my passion for American football.

FFS. I can only read the initial sentences. My thoughts? What an absolute load of cockcustard!

My oestrogen must be substandard too – it didn't dim my passion for going down the footie on a Saturday Grin

TeiTetua · 28/06/2020 15:24

I suppose if that's the way someone wants to put it, it's true. But it's just one form of aberration among many. To be more general, "People who are not mentally ill are privileged over those who are mentally ill". We hope the ones who need help will get it. It could be people thinking they're in the wrong body, or any number of other things.

fuckinghellapeacock · 28/06/2020 15:22

I have never met a woman that has not suffered harassment, almost every woman does as a girl.

OvaHere · 28/06/2020 15:12

A reminder for anyone not aware of this individual. Thomas is a longstanding MRA even writing a book some years ago disparaging women.

Everything they say should be viewed through the lens of their intense dislike of women.

midgebabe · 28/06/2020 15:06

Pity it's behind a paywall, it sounds like a lot of people would find it interesting!