Daily Mail article on “Minor attracted persons”

The Harrop / Jensen type conversation also potentially distracts from issues like ‘MAPS’ attracted to 7 year olds and their ubiquitous ‘DMs open’ . Etc.

LouHotel
I dimly remember it being done with Charlotte Church. I thought it had stopped after that, obviously not.

The age of consent and paedophilia are different things.

Both important, and some links.

But paedophilia is sexual attraction to pre pubescent children.

However, we can easily see that the Jensen / Harrop exchange could fuel ‘MAP’ apologists with undeveloped thinking skills.

@didolamenting I'll reframe as internal countdown clocks - there sidebar of shame automatically updates when a teenage girl become fair game. Cindy Crawfords daughter is the best example I've seen.

In a sense, the line is always going to be arbitrary. I always find it jarring reading US sources describing someone having sex with a 17-year-old as a paedophile, and the 17-year-old as a child. Here, it'd be completely legal. Arguably immoral if there's a large age gap or power imbalance, but that'd be equally true were the younger partner 19. Taking a hypothetical country where the age of consent is 15 instead of 16, that shouldn't mean that to a British person, that country promotes paedophilia. It's just a slightly different dividing line.

The danger and the problem is when certain people look at this fuzziness around when exactly an adolescent has sufficient maturity for sexual relationships (which, in reality, will vary by individual, but laws can't account for that) and decide that it means that the whole concept of an age of consent is too flawed to have real meaning. Then you get PIE, and the extreme moral relativists who argue that ten-year-old brides are okay if it's 'culture' but completely wrong otherwise.

It's the leap from societal norms being socially constructed and not absolute to the idea that because of this, we shouldn't have any. A milder example of this is jumping from the idea that the nuclear family is to some extent a sociocultural construction, and other configurations are possible and should be recognised, to the 'dismantle the family' calls from some on the far left.

The ‘Q’ particularly with ‘breaking down societal norms’. Just look at the response to the ASDA linked pack - where was the condemnation

Exactly. As soon as they added the Q and all the other letters to LGB they invited in all sorts of weirdos with undesirable fetishes.

I'm glad the MoS has brought this to public attention. I hope they do a bit more digging and start investigating the links between the MAPs and TRAs.

When the paper that has countdown clocks for when celebrity girls become 16 are the only ones reporting you realise how captured the left is

That was The Sun, not The Mail.

It's terrifying how a massive world wide campaign to silence and erase women was quickly piggy backed on by child abusers.
And a lot of that campaign also targets children , safeguarding etc.

I doubt it's a coincidence.

Siablue, sorry but I don’t have a problem with prejudice against paedos

I can't believe they are openly and happily discussing it on Twitter, as if they know they are "safe" there - maybe they think lots will share their views.

We're talking about people not picking up on this, but this thread is in Feminism, its not the most popular topic (compelling as it might be) on Mumsnet, this sort of thing needs to be shouted from the rooftops of Chat or AIBU.

“The age of consent is lower in some other European countries - it's 14 in Germany, Austria and Italy for example.

I wouldn't support the lowering personally but it is accurate to say it's a judgement call.“

It’s true that the age of consent differs from country to country, but in Europe, where it’s 14, there is written into the law an age bracket within which consensual sexual activity is deemed lawful and not rape. So that young people can have mutually consensual sexand not be prosecuted, but also predatory adults cannot take advantage of the age of consent. Of course this law has to be enforced and it often isn’t because girls don’t matter, do they? Everyone knows that.

Also, in countries where there is child marriage, girls aged 10 to 12 are raped by their husbands (there’s no possibility of consent here, they are too young and their husbands often 30 years or more their senior) then give birth before their pelvis is ready and die or are permanently disabled.

Personally, having had two children and been a girl who was sexually exploited and abused from the age of ten, I think 16 is the perfect age To consider a person can fully understand and give informed consent to sexual activity that is penetrative.

When the paper that has countdown clocks for when celebrity girls become 16 are the only ones reporting you realise how captured the left is.

At last! I have been saying this to people (who remember PIE) and they all seem to think that they all just went away.

The article says “ Otep Shamaya, a gay rights campaigner, said: ‘They are a fiendish group of sub-humans and they will find no haven in the LGBTQ community.“

But they are finding havens within this community. The ‘Q’ particularly with ‘breaking down societal norms’. Just look at the response to the ASDA linked pack - where was the condemnation?

But I do worry that some tabloid readers don’t have any subtlety and that it will reinforce prejudice.

As opposed to readers of the Guardian?

Funny. The modern left want Rowling cancelled for saying sex exists and matters, but they're just fine with open paedophile apologism.

Why only the Daily Mail? I wish some other media outlets would pick this up. We need a panarama episode on it

I think there is a grain of truth to be recognised that in different cultures it isn't seen as abusive, and that we view men who behave in that way as abusers when they would not view themselves that way. So, say a 60yr old tribal elder taking a 14 yr old 3rd wife wouldn't be seen as an abuser in their own community. They would not be doing anything transgressive in that community.

However it's unacceptable and the culture there needs to be challenged until it becomes transgressive. Does that make sense? It's absolutely not a reason to say 'oh perhaps we're wrong after all, and sexual relationships with children aren't always a bad thing.' They absolutely are. Obviously.

Xpost - so Germany is an example of 'Romeo and Juliet' not general lower age of consent.

@errolthedragon - that sounds like a good system.