The Glinner thing

God these brain sex threads are the height of cringe. How can people honostly believe this bollocks?

Premise 1: brain structure X is only found in females.
Premise 2: brain structure X has now also been found in some males but not in some females.

Which is the more realistic conclusion?
a) the males with brain structure X are really female, and the females without brain structure X are really male.
b) brain structure X is not specific to either sex

I mean, how thick do you actually need to be to think its the former? Only someone with a serious commitment to harming women would draw conclusion A.

Its basically the "no black swan" fallacy, with a side order of extra fallacy. Imagine that you have only ever seen white swans and black crows. You conclude from this that there are no black swans and no white crows. One day you see a black Swan. It has everything in common with the other swans, except its colour, and nothing in common with the crows except its colour. Do you think a) oh look, that Swan must really be a crow, or B) huh, I guess swans can have black feathers after all. And this example even gives you waaay more of a head start than you deserve because it does at least start from a position that the characteristic in question (feather colour) has developed due to biological and not social factors.

Honostly that's not even the stupidest bit of the brain sex argument. I could go on for pages about all the biases and fallacies that the argument relies on. But at the end of the day it doesn't matter how many times we debunk this nonsense - it doesn't even seem to matter that most of the papers you cite specifically refute the conclusion you're drawing from them. "Gender science" continues to limp on for the same reason race science does - so that bigots can use it to oppress their chosen group. And that OP, is why you are both scientifically illiterate, and a misogynist.

Soooo... let me get this straight, Johnny-Come-Lately:

1. Binary male/female sex is a myth, a social construct. Sex is a rainbow, genderbread spectrum, right?
2. There are male brains and female brains and some people with female brains get born in a male body and vice versa , right?

How do you reconcile these two ideas? They’re both inherent to the trans rights movement but completely contradict each other.

Life is pretty simple for us gender critical feminists. Sex is real, gender is a construct, women (adult human females) experience oppression based on our reproductive biology and the social constructs the patriarchy built to control it. Amazing. How can our fragile simpering female brains have come up with such a logical, coherent ideology all by ourselves? simpers

I have been told many times that I think like a man. I also do a job that is male-dominated. Maybe I would have a male brain then, if indeed such a thing existed (the research shows that's bollocks though). So?

My 14 year old son is still stronger than me. I am still wary of being alone with an unknown male in a secluded location. My body still got ravaged by pregnancy. I have been overlooked at work because it was assumed parenting would stop me being dedicated enough to big projects while no such assumptions were made about colleagues who were fathers.

So what if my brain were "wrong"? It's my body that causes the sexism problems and the being physically vulnerable risk. I can't think my way out of being physically weaker than a typical teenage boy. I can't think my way out of other people's sexism.

Yup, Axie, that's precisely what happens when you start reading the actual papers and not just the cherry picked quotes or the press release. Almost all of these studies disprove the claim that there's evidence for ladybrainz. Stiff drink indeed.

Based on the way in which women and men have conducted themselves throughout history and speaking very generally I would agree there are definite differences in their brains and it appears that women are more intelligent than men. Takes more than a dress to achieve that.

If men have man brains, and women have lady brains, why is it that transwomen offend at the same rate and with the same profile as men, not women? Have they got the wrong kind of brain and the wrong kind of body as well? How awful for them! Or perhaps brains aren't actually involved in sexual crimes and the penises are like the tail wagging the dog? Either way, I'd like my sex segregated spaces penis free, thank you.

I read a long twitter rant about violence agains trans w recently.

Being groped in pubs and clubs.
Being shouted and catcalled in the street
Scared to go into toilets in case someone was in there who wished them ill
Scared to walk down the street at night
Scared when alone at night and passing men/groups of men.

Etc

They don’t seem to recognise that this is women’s experience. Every day of their lives.

If they are women, this is part of being one. They should feel grateful for this “violence” as surely it validates their female experience?

OK, I give in. I'm a very long-time lurker and this has finally drawn me out.

I started reading the "Grey and white matter volumes either in treatment-naïve or hormone-treated transgender women: a voxel-based morphometry study" article. I got to the point where it stated Although this study noted differences in sex/gender and behaviour, the human brain has a variety of individual characteristics that may each be more masculine or feminine. Consequently, human brains cannot be classified into two distinct categories of “male brain” versus “female brain”....

I may need a stiff drink before I carry on.

If the new Stonewall CEO wants some research into social acceptance she can read this thread. This is the bollocks pushed at women that we are expected to accept.

Start speaking honestly and you will be listened to, this bullshit is not going to succeed.

It's always interesting that men will claim "pink brain/blue brain" - often as a way to denigrate women and tell them that their brains were made by nature and/or God to do the cleaning, and the caring, and all the P/T, low paid jobs. Propping up the subjugation & oppression of women using this sort of science is something feminism has been fighting for decades.

Added to that, TRAs, in just a few short years, have also started to tell us that male sex organs like the penis - can actually be female. They feel feminine, so their penises must be female! So now, not only are we fighting the "pink brain" mythology that attaches itself to women and women's rights, but we're fighting the so-called "female penis" in women's spaces as well. Just give us a break! We don't have pink brains, and we don't have penises.

Funny how the "science" quoted by men always seems to be detrimental to women, to be somehow putting us in our place, isn't it?

The answer is still NO. Humans born male cannot become women. No matter what their brain scan says.

Still RTFT but I'm impatient and MN is making me cross today ...

Let's assume what your saying is correct.

I still do not want a human being with male physiology and all the strength and force advantages that brings, sharing a space either with me or my DD 11 when we may be undressed or vulnerable.

If you honestly think this statement is transphobic or other such bollocks then you have the problem, not me.

So, if some people have female brains in make bodies, which is what you appear to be arguing, then we can do a test surely? Is there such a test? If not, why not?

My higher self wants to retain single sex spaces.

I am not a scientist, I am a historian, and I take issue with this:

‘And history has also repeatedly shown us that people who claim to be suffering from something that ultimately complicates their life in ways that anyone would rather avoid (like being gay, for example, which opens you up to persecution and complications and which historically was seen as a malady to be "cured") are usually right. These people really ARE suffering, and today we even have the science to prove that their complaint appears to be true.‘

History has not shown us that at all. In answer to your single example of gay people I give you:
people who thought they were made of glass
People who believed they were possessed by demons
People who had the dancing malady and thought they couldn’t stop dancing.
Just for starters. None of these people were right.

I also would like to point out to you that at this point in time among certain groups claiming trans identity doesn’t open you up to persecution, it brings you status and attention . This is not true for many trans people who are genuinely discriminated against and suffer violence, but for an increasing number it is far from analogous with the experience of homosexuals at a time when it was illegal.

and hopefully appealing to your higher self

My higher self says no.
Where's the compassion and empathy for the females who want to retain their sex based rights and single sex spaces?

That’s when I realised make up didn’t actually make me look better, but rather made other people think I was attractive in a societally accepted way. It was other people that cared if I put on make up to fit in with a concept of femaleness

Yes, it’s,interesting, isn’t it. I’ve always though someone wearing lipstick looks... like someone in lipstick. Not intrinsically better or worse, just like they have Done a Thing.

There’s a lot of talk on the S&B boards how someone feels they ‘need‘ their makeup to look ok, or acceptable. I find that a bit disheartening tbh. Do Make-up if it’s your Thing, or dont do it. But please don’t feel compelled, just because you look at a lot of pictures of women in makeup.

I do wish the OP had arrived at the start of lockdown. I had much more time to answer ploppers then.

Sex not wed. Autocorrect WTF?!

Even a proven neurological condition like ADHD has no firm diagnostic brain scan.

My autistic child had a brain scan. They found nothing of note and yet he is indeed autistic amongst other significant additional needs.

I actually genuinely want to understand "The Science" and form my opinions from ALL the information not just what I prefer so I will take a look at your studies.

Still though, I do not want Male bodies in mine or my teenage DD's single wed spaces. No woman should ever have to see a penis or Male bodied person she has not chosen to, however their brain looks or functions. You'll be needing third spaces for those people so I suggest they start campaigning for them like women had to.

Again, just to be clear, I'm not pushing any political agenda, or even suggesting the best way to address this situation, I'm just sharing the science, and hopefully appealing to your higher self. Pointing out that those who listen with compassion and empathy tend to sit on the right side of history

Nah. We've done compassion and empathy and got shat on from a great height.

I don't see much of the above coming from transactivists towards women. In fact, I'd say the opposite's true. Now take your patronising, disingenuous attitude and bugger off back to Tumblr

🧔

I was lectured with this lady brain nonsense so called settled science by the Labour Party LGBTQ committee. The one's representing the Labour Party viewpoint. The Labour Party have accepted this offensive garbage as fact.

Terrible.

Why did Dianne's post get deleted?
She didn't use any wrongspeak as far as I recall.
Are we not allowed to call out Mansplaining ploppers when they pop by?
Do we all have to be kind and not sarcastic now?

And do tell, because I'm baffled, why do you seriously expect female people to not mind about female-exclusionary politics or seek to protect the females at risk from them?

You seem to think those females are being stupid, or naughty or something.

Trans-exclusionary

Sigh.

To include TW in female only spaces is female exclusionary. There's no way around this, to give TW entry to single sex spaces will push out females from having any provision of any kind. What are we going to do with them?

If you believe in trans inclusion in single sex spaces, you believe in female exclusion.

There are third spaces that will work for trans people, and will give them the gender neutral/mixed sex space they want to turn female only spaces into, so what's the diff? TW won't allow there to be a third space for females only though.

What are you planning to do with those excluded, displaced females, oh kind and inclusive and socially just one?