Have TRA offered a solution to single sex spaces?

Is there any consideration for our most vulnerable women in the TRA position?

Absolutely, the most vulnerable of women are transwomen who are uber oppressed and marginalised and have no voice in society so it is important that they get to use whatever space they wish otherwise they will die.

Iirc the solution was reeducation. For those stubborn women who really dont want to share,. Those meanies, get thee to a reeducation camp immediately.

Also, most of these compassionate people think 'trans' means they are undergoing or intend to undergo a medical or surgical transition and in fact the vast majority of TW don't have surgery.

Iv'e been having alongargument on FB with friends who keep saying "but, my trans woman friend is lovely and wouldn't hurt anyone" this here is the trouble.

People who know nice trans people support the TRAs out of compassion for their friend - they hear the rhetoric and alarming stats and want to do what they can to protect the dignity of their friend. The difficulty comes from TRAs not actually representing the nice trans people your friend knows, but people who have their own interests and are happy to ignore the needs of vulnerable women to fulfil them.

More needs to be done to help seperate the extremist ideology from trans people but it's incredibly difficult when it's the extremists that listened to by the media and sensible people who point out the problem get cancelled.

As I've said before, the irony is that having an additional, third space would be beneficial for the NBs but the TRAs don't really give a shit about them anyway, unless it suits them to on a specific point.

But to answer the OPs question, no, the TRAs (as opposed to sensible trans people) don't offer any solution on single sex spaces - they simply want to abolish them, and have all facilities available for either sex either as 'gender neutral' or divided - for no good reason at all, and I'm not sure how the heck 'nonbinaries' are supposed to deal with it - by 'gender', which is of course merely a matter of self identification.

The TRAs don't seem to give a damn about the needs of women.

Fionne Orlander and Miranda Yardley did a change.org petition for third spaces that I think is still going.

There's a link on the Petitions and Activism board, thread started by Hamster00 iirc

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/petitions_noticeboard

we should all be kind to the trans people and it's just tough for the older woman who just wants to be helped to wash without showing her tits to someone she sees as a man is the current TRA thinking. There's no thought towards the needs of vulnerable women, they just need to be recognised as the gender they self-ID as.

Many trans people do support third spaces so that single sex provisions can remain. Fionne Orlander and Miranda Yardley did a change.org petition for third spaces that I think is still going.

If you caught the transitory thread that appeared overnight you may have noticed the expression there: it came down to 'this does not happen, it is not real, my reality is the only one that exists, stop hurting me and take care of me by giving me what I want'.

There's no reasoning with someone so wholly stuck inside their own needs and unable to even see or admit to anyone else's needs existing, never mind reasonably engage with them. However sad you may be for someone stuck in this state, the answer cannot be to sacrifice large swathes of female rights to them.

The core issue is an ability of this lobby to cope with a boundary.

To accept that female people have real, serious issues with losing single sex spaces would mean accepting there is a part of womanhood exclusive to biological females that biological males can't claim and own.

That messes with validation of identity, it puts limits on gender identity, it confirms that there is a real difference between a biological male and a biological female. It causes genuine distress to some, and mindbending rage to others. But reality matters. Stomping other people underfoot to achieve what you need and want is not ok. Enforced performing of beliefs not held and excluding some female people from any services at all is not ok. That rage and hurt and distress has to be stood up to and helped in other ways.

It really does come down to: is the feelings and desires of males more important to protect in this society than the reality and needs of females?

Harrop sorter this on Twitter a few days ago didn't he? Third space for women who don't want to share their space with men. Fuck knows what it'll be called though.....

They’re not interested in a solution that works for everyone. They want access to women’s space either for kicks or validation.

What I find interesting is a lot of TRAs say they fear violence from men which is why they need to use women’s spaces but can’t see the issue with women having to let men who say they’re women and non threatening into women’s spaces. How are we meant to know the difference?

No one is asking men to be kind and accessing other men who like to wear dresses or makeup. It’s up to the women to shut up and deal with it. Again.

The answer is a third space but the TRAs generally aren’t interested in that.

Hahaha of course there isn’t!

They want women’s spaces and they’re not interested in how we feel about it

The solution offered by the TRA lobby is that female people submit, obey and #bekind. End of problem.

And if necessary abandon their religion and culture, get over their trauma and overcome their disabilities. Now.

There's an absolute inability to admit to, never mind engage with the reality for female people. Female people serve or are evil. That's it. The end.

No they don't need a solution or your consent. They want access and if they get their way anyone who opposes them will be prosecuted. Simple.