Burgeoning plague of incels - apparently

To be fair to Peterson (and I disagree with him on a lot of things), his main message seems to be aimed at young men telling them to get their lives in order rather than blaming women/society.

If you're a miserable male with a history of handling bullying and rejection then it isn't sensible to deny that transition provides an escape out of it, particularly when someone in that unhappy situation will have lost so much confidence in themselves, their body, the chasm between the life (and self) they long for and the unhappy reality. This country is appalling at managing bullying, additional needs and mental health care in children.

It's not so different from the misery of being a young female, dealing with growing up in a world where females have no voice, no power, where their bodies are turning into something attracting alarming attention and objectification, where anything non pink, frilly, thin, pretty etc etc etc can't be a real girl.... and there being an incentive in a route that may let you escape this fate.

And that sex is a right for a male, which automatically establishes someone compelled to provide it with or without consent.

Psychological help urgently needed.

'Transition. Get immediate status of bravery and support, especially from nurturing females who are suddenly much more interested. Get lots of 'authority' support and attention, get lots of rights and careful treatment by others now concerned not to do something un pc and be punished for it. I have seen articles by males who have gone this route, some more consciously than others, and are then bitterly hurt and angry that these females who will now give them attention and status, will be friends and very nice to them but still won't actually put out'

Great post Michelle, and this sums up the trans situation very well!

Incel
The term itself is illogical, it implies that celibacy is a condition that you should not find yourself in unless you have actively consented to it

TL:DR

At some point, authority is going to have to find the guts to say 'no' to these massive toddlers. And stand up to the tantrums.

Yeah.

Low status male: badly treated by other males: often with social and emotional issues: struggles to deal with, be attractive to or of interest to a female while seeing high status males attract them: females can freely reject advances not of interest to them.

Blame everyone else, feel entitled, take no responsibility for feelings and behaviours and actions: do nothing to change them and have almighty sulk about why the govt won't issue uppity bitches (and it better be the high status ones) willing or not, one to each low status man. Because they're not humans or anything, just shag fodder.

Hence you see incel groups where things like: I won't shower or deal with my BO if I don't want to, uppity bitch should be forced to shag me anyway.

Spot the rigid thinking, lack of empathy and social development, absolute inability to take responsibility for self or actions, or even to link cause and effect, on top of extreme end entitlement and a belief that self is properly human with entitlements and other humans are just props without such rights. No one in their right mind would enter into a relationship, it's abuse looking for somewhere to happen.

This is about teaching emotional skills, social skills and boundaries early on, and about the growing lack of empathy and entitlement seen going on in social media groups who think like this, where they want what they want, now, without any responsibility or effort on their part or feel their rage, and other people are just endless and personless providers. This kind of pathology is going to have to be faced up to and dealt with if as a society we want to stop the going over the edge into hurting someone (who is perceived as having thwarted them) in an over grown toddler rage.

And yes, there is a get out clause for that young man other than going down the incel route and it's clearly marked with plenty of articles by men going that route and finding the issues.

Transition. Get immediate status of bravery and support, especially from nurturing females who are suddenly much more interested. Get lots of 'authority' support and attention, get lots of rights and careful treatment by others now concerned not to do something un pc and be punished for it. I have seen articles by males who have gone this route, some more consciously than others, and are then bitterly hurt and angry that these females who will now give them attention and status, will be friends and very nice to them but still won't actually put out.

All Peterson is saying
and he gives great amounts of licence to those who would like to believe that it is woman's job to solve and absorb the problem of of 'spare men'

Incel 'logic' is just fucking vile. Because they cannot attract a partner (possibly due to them oozing misogyny constantly rather than anything to do with their looks tbh) they reckon women should purposely shag people they aren't attracted to, else women 'create' incels. Thats about it isn't it? Fucking bonkers. I reckon theres a huge crossover between incels and MRAs. Seem just about the same, just MRAs hate women a bit more as they are not only focussed on their dicks.

If you have a society set up so that a few men have a lot of wives, and there are a lot of men left without much likelihood of marriage, you can expect certain outcomes from that. Or if you have a society where almost everyone gets married, you will have different outcomes. Environmental factors too to consider, if there is a very high male or female death rate, or if the society has enough reproductive capacity or tends to be marginal.

All Peterson is saying is that from an anthropological perspective, when you have a lot of men not finding a partner, they constitute a risky population. They are the kind of young men who are easily radicalised, or turn to prostitution (which isn't very good for women or children) or join an army. Not all, but some will especially if there is someone looking to use them that way.

So one of the advantages of a society with "enforced monogamy" which basically just means you can't marry more than one person at a time as it's against the law or not socially acceptable, is that most people will be able to find a partner.

@wellbehavedwomen

I think their solution was immigrant women, who are supposed to be grateful for the leg up in society (no pun intended).

My impression is that many men call themselves 'incels' when what they actually mean is that they can't get a woman of the type (i.e. young, slim, attractive) they want and think they deserve.

That reminds me of when I was online dating at age 31 and I messaged a guy because we seemed to have a few of the same interests. He was older than me, uglier than me and much more overweight than me. He'd also never had a long relationship. He sent me a nasty message back acting all offended because what I was thinking since I was overweight and already 31 so over the hill.

I get why he was single.

I think so too, Jordan peterson's argument (if you can wade through all the world salad) is that women should placate men for the good of society

Ugh I bet the other man was one of those pick up artist coaches. Remember seeing a documentary about them, apparently incels pay these men to teach them how to pick up women.

There are tons and tons of men who at first glance don’t appear to be “high status” (not extremely good looking or in shape, don’t appear to be well off) who nevertheless manage to snare wives and girlfriends. You see men walking around with much more attractive female partners all the time. So clearly not being a male model and not earning loads of not the barrier to finding love that incels think it is.

But it’s far easier for incels to blame shallow, gold digging women than to admit that their own personalities are driving women away and that actually plenty of not conventionally attractive men are great catches and have plenty of female attention because they treat women well and have caring personalities and a good sense of humour.

Anyone who wants consensual respectful sex
indeed but that wouldn't work for the incells they want sex which makes them feel superior, dominant and entitled to take what they want without any thing being asked in return
This is not sex for mutual pleasure this is sex as a means to exploit and degrade

@stella47 I know quite a few couples like this. Only in one case did it end badly for the woman (even then not that badly, she lives independently with sole custody of children and has no maintenance obligations). There were a few of these men who were shocked when they realised that they couldn’t single handedly support a family to the standard their wife expected but they quickly learned that their wife’s career came first and settled into a happy routine. These were all middle class men paired with middle/upper middle women though.

Perhaps the incels could learn a thing or two from the Vikings. Viking men were physically fit, took great pride in their appearance and personal hygiene, had skilled jobs, women could own their own property and get a divorce and had legal protection from mistreatment and unwanted attention from men....can you see where you're going wrong incels?

Perhaps we could crowd fund some day trips to Jorvik to help them out?

Incel my arse. Anyone who wants consensual, respectful sex with someone who broadly corresponds to their status in society can have it.

What they can't have is a lingerie model ringing their doorbell and shouting 'shag me Brian' .

Elle McPherson is too old for them, they're expecting an 18 year old woman with model looks who they can easily control because they want power as well as a relationship/sex.

I was sitting outside Covent garden tube station waiting for a friend a few years ago. I noticed a man start to walk up to women and back down. he would go back to another man who he was with and chat for a few seconds and start again. Eventually, he approached a woman I can only describe as a supermodel. She was, as could be expected in CGarden, a tourist. He asked for her number and she declined, nicely.

What was very obvious to me was that this man was expecting a complete stranger to give her number (when this does happen, it is usually a false number, no?)

He was considerably older and dressed and appeared in a way that wouldn't ring alarm bells but would make you think something feels odd here.

These are n't reflections on who he might be deep down but if a man like that feels he is being rejected for who he is rather that what he is doing , that is the real problem.

I think it is a strike rate for these guys - if they can ask out a beautiful woman and take the rejection then thay can ask out Doris in accounts where actually it is real, but then another part of me says no, they are actually that deluded and think they stand a chance with Elle McPherson.

I'm not sure you can compare what's gone on in places like China with places like the UK or US.

There is some good evidence that at a society level, if you have a big pool of young men with no hope of a partner, it's destabilising. They are just sitting there stewing waiting to form an army or something. But the obvious solution for a country like China seems to be don't abort girls so your population balance is all wacky.

Tumblr radfems call it the incel to trans timeline.