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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Trans Rights: There's little point in arguing facts. This is not about facts.

153 replies

BiPsychle · 24/06/2020 21:45

My background is in psychoanalysis and psychodynamic theory, and while, granted, to every person with a hammer, every problem is a nail, I do believe that there's a psychoanalytic approach to the trans rights debate that explains the level of energy in perceived attacks against the TR movement, and the need to mobilise to silence any question that they are right and their opponents are wrong. And when you see it this way, you begin to understand why arguing facts is pointless and doesn't work - why no matter what logic is brought into the debate, the resistance remains, and in fact increases, along with a certain sense of hysteria.

I work regularly with clients who are in problematic relationships with others. I note often that these relationships are defined by a dynamic that is so powerful that it runs the risk of destroying everything else - namely, a "fight to the death". But a fight about what? And against what?

The fight, in one form or another, is typically an existential fight where the party is 'hooked into' their perceived opponent: they believe they are fighting for their very existence; they need a hook to hang this on to; and one of the strongest and most destructive hooks is envy.

From a psychoanalytic perspective, there are many men out there who envy women to the point of hatred. At its most extreme - and there is nothing more extreme than a dysfunctional relationship with woman, i.e. "mother" - the envy goes so deep that, theoretically, there is an unconscious desire to 'consume' the other. In this case, for someone to consume "woman". The theory goes that by becoming her, she no longer exists, the protagonist takes her place, vengeance is exacted, and pain assuaged.

In other words, this is theoretically an unconscious drive to take womanhood and motherhood over, and to have a new ruler in her place. To obliterate anything to do with woman by overlaying something that looks like her, but is a facsimile of her. This might explain why there is so much new language around reproduction and menstruation - the one thing where a man may feel that he is shut out.

I understand that to many people this is foreign. But I've lived, eaten, and breathed the world of the unconscious for years, and it has offered an enlightening perspective on several radical movements going on right now (each with a different, but linked, explanation). And I thought I'd offer it here, because I'm not political, but I am deeply interested in the motivations of a person's psyche, and well versed in subtexts that operate therein.

So: facts are irrelevant. This isn't factual. It is emotional and psychological ... and for the most part unconscious, which means it is very hard to get to, because you are attacking a person's deeply entrenched defences - and those defences are there for good reason: to hold back childhood pain and devastation. I write this final sentence as a reason, and not an excuse, for what's happening. Because another piece of the puzzle here is a prevailing inability to take responsibility for one's past, and therefore one's present actions.

Individually and collectively, we are reaping what our forebears sowed.

OP posts:
CaraDune · 24/06/2020 22:01

Well, up to a point lord copper...

This explains why, psychologically, TRAs are so batshit. It doesn't explain why other people feel compelled to go along with them.

It's not people's inner feelings that worry me? You (generic you) feel like you have an internal feminine essence? Fine, crack on.

It's the practical consequences that worry me. Do we put male rapists in female prisons, purely on the say so of the rapists? Do we allow people with male bodies to compete in women's sports? Do we ban women from setting up rape support services which are female only?

I know the TRA answer to these questions - a blanket "yes".

This answer to my mind is clearly wrong.

What I want to know is why otherwise sane people in power - politicians, the judiciary, the police, medics, sports governing bodies - are all going along with this batshit crazy view (rather than saying "these people are crazy - let's by all means try to show them kindness, but at the same time say 'no' firmly to their batshit demands.")

I'm sure your analysis of why TRAs are batshit is right - but for me the really interesting question is why the grown up sane people are going along with it.

Stripesgalore · 24/06/2020 21:54

There are hardly any trans women though. So are you saying this hatred of women is coming from another group in society then?

But yes, the basis of patriarchy has always been the desire of men to control women because women can get pregnant and men can’t.

I assume the purpose when they use trans arguments is to cause some kind of confusion over the basic fact that women gestate babies so they can push through surrogacy, trafficking, prostitution and removal of children from women.

I think the jealousy over not being able to get pregnant is a pretty conscious one. Most men just keep quiet about it.

Apollo440 · 24/06/2020 21:54

Ok if I accept that it explains a lot but what about the countless hangers on who support this nonsense. Why (for instance) would Daniel Radcliffe be immune to reason? Surely we keep trying until the penny drops? Why are they so invested?

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