'Don't call us menstruators' petition taken down by Change.org

The only one equating women to menstruaters is you lot.

Yes, that’s the problem - somehow the rest of the world is pretending to forget that only female people (the people previously known as ‘women and girls’) menstruate.

It’s batshittery and it undermines women’s advocacy and women’s rights (y’know, the rights we have specifically in relation to being the female of the species).

There are currently 305 petitions with TW in the title.

www.change.org/search?q=trans%20women

[quote riotlady]hmm I’ll agree with that when people who need condoms are called sperm makers or ejaculators, not all men make sperm and some sperm makers are not ‘men’... but no one has to mangle the English language or invent offensive nonwords for them.

Condom companies could do with catching up, I agree. But people with penises/testicles is definitely being used

www.teenhealthcare.org/article/sexual-anatomy-of-people-with-a-penis/

www.healthline.com/health/healthy-sex/play-with-testicles

www.cancer.net/cancer-types/testicular-cancer/symptoms-and-signs

www.healthline.com/health/signs-of-high-testosterone#signs-in-people-with-penises

www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/cancer/testicular-cancer[/quote]
These appear to be American sites - don’t know what that has to do with the UK. As you cannot find a UK site (which is sizeable / well known) I assume that it isn’t happening. Men aren’t be called ‘penis havers’, ‘beard wearers’ or ‘non women’.

Particularly now people are living longer, women are likely to spend half their lives 'not menstruating'. However, a woman will 'not menstruate' for a completely different reason to a man. If we can't talk about that, and have to pretend that we are protecting feelings by talking about 'menstruators' we make women's biology shameful. Again.

There are also people who do feel they don't want to define themselves by sex or think of it in those binary terms.

Yet that makes no difference to the rights they require because of their sex.

I agree. I'm perfectly happy however for them to state their beliefs and chosen self descriptors however they feel they need to - so long as they don't expect to control and erase mine.

Interesting how the initial claim from TRAs is that its "inclusive" to call us menstruator and we must do so to not exclude trans masc and non-binary individuals who menstruate, and to avoid triggering their dysphoria/dysmorphia. Yet by calling dysphoric trans guys 'menstruators', they are in fact referring to them purely in terms of the function of the exact same female reproductive system that distresses them and reminds them they're not XY.

Unsurprisingly it always starts as "but what about the trans men?", only for it to be a bait n switch, with them taking about five minutes to begin terfing and raging about "NOT ALL WOMEN MENSTRUATE!", and wanging on about how TRANS WOMEN ARE WOMEN !!!1!1!".

For years the word woman was used and women who didn't menstruated for whatever reason managed to cope

It's like saying that " just for men " hair dye should be renamed "just for hirsutes" dye cos some men are bald and some are not grey

There are also people who do feel they don't want to define themselves by sex or think of it in those binary terms.

Yet that makes no difference to the rights they require because of their sex.

The whole point of using “people who menstruate” is that not all women menstruate and some people who don’t identify as women do menstruate. The only one equating women to menstruaters is you lot.

The only people who lose rights because they menstruate - the ability to travel, access education and work - are women. Most women will, do or have menstruated, and women are preventing from participating in society on equal terms with men because of their biology.

Pussy footing around this fact and insisting that 'woman' is just an identity facilitates the oppression of women. I don't think being described as a 'menstruator' reduces my identity, I know that it reduces my ability to talk about my rights.

Honestly, I do not think that people born female and identifying as men or boys are the most vulnerable people in any society at the moment. I think they are people who have no choices what so ever because they were born female. The last thing any one cares about is their identity. We cannot talk about their rights if we can't talk about sex.

Presumably a TRA complained. If women complain about anti-women petitions started by activists, are they taken down??

TRA's seem to think that only their opinion and view matters - well you know what - the opinion of women like me also matters!

Well the thing is - I was born a woman, I am a woman and I will die a woman now stop telling me that I cannot use the term woman to describe me and reducing me to something else that I am not.

A tiny, tiny minority of very loud people jump up and down and we all can no longer call ourselves women and have to accept people who 'identify' as women in our changing rooms and toilets - even if that makes some of us feel unsafe (sexual assault victim her never recovered fully - but don't let that bother you) - erase the word completely well when you erase the word man ....

No way - safety is much more important to me

I menstruate, I need access to birth control, I haven't gone through male puberty, I will go through menopause. I don't have control over any of this, but I do need particular rights and protections because of this. I need language that clearly defines sex - not me.

This points it out:

There are plenty of the 51% of the human race born female who feel like this.

There are also people who do feel they don't want to define themselves by sex or think of it in those binary terms.

The first group are fine with both groups being referred to and living side by side with differing beliefs. Inclusion. Diversity.

The second group appear to want the first group to be prevented from even talking about or recognising their own personal reality and only that of the second group allowed to exist. Not inclusion, not diversity. Not treatment they'd be at all happy to accept themselves. Not ok.

Wow - it appears anyone can have a voice but women born biological women!

Yes - pressure from TRAs is just everywhere.

And they make out that it's because of "inclusivity" - ie. that some transmen and NB people have periods too. But it's not really that. They could easily say "women, transmen and NB people". But they don't.

The precise reason they're calling us "menstuators" now is that transwomen don't menstruate, and tell women not to link the word woman with female biology. Eg. Munroe Bergdorf.

I don't think this is the first time that Change.org has done this.
Considering the nature of the petition is not offensive ( I say not as in not racist / fascist etc) it should not be something that they should be taking down. I suspect there are been pressure on them to remove it.

hmm I’ll agree with that when people who need condoms are called sperm makers or ejaculators, not all men make sperm and some sperm makers are not ‘men’... but no one has to mangle the English language or invent offensive nonwords for them.

Condom companies could do with catching up, I agree. But people with penises/testicles is definitely being used

www.teenhealthcare.org/article/sexual-anatomy-of-people-with-a-penis/

www.healthline.com/health/healthy-sex/play-with-testicles

www.cancer.net/cancer-types/testicular-cancer/symptoms-and-signs

www.healthline.com/health/signs-of-high-testosterone#signs-in-people-with-penises

www.plannedparenthood.org/learn/cancer/testicular-cancer

riotlady, what do you mean by 'defined by'?

Like all other humans, I have value because I am human.

My sex doesn't 'define me', any more than my blood type or my hair colour me - they are all just a chance result of biological factors.

However, my sex does lead to unavoidable consequences that I have to live with - I menstruate, I need access to birth control, I haven't gone through male puberty, I will go through menopause. I don't have control over any of this, but I do need particular rights and protections because of this.

I need language that clearly defines sex - not me.

Females - we want a say in what we're called, the way we've always had.

Trans activist lobby - you'll be what we call you and you'll shut up about it. You don't get a say, you don't get an opinion, you don't get to use any normal avenue of protest or complaint, you don't get to have feelings about it or to do anything but exactly what we say.

Then they're baffled females are very pissed off.

I declare all persons formerly known as men be called Wankers, so we are calling them by a bodily function too. I doubt they'd like that either.

I am in despair reading this....

Absolute despair 😩

Where/how can we arrange a written petition then?

I refuse to accept this!

This is the part I don’t get about GC feminists... you don’t want to be defined by your biology but you also want everyone to be defined by their biology.

It's quite simple. When talking about why we are discriminated against, we NEED to frame that within our biology.

When talking about our abilities, personality, interests, shopping preferences etc, there is no need whatsoever to even mention our biology, let alone frame the discussion around that.

To give an example, why wasn't Dr Pregnant McPregnant shortlisted for the head of facility role? Frame that debate around Dr McP's biology because that's why she was discriminated against.

Is Dr McP capable of being head of facility? Do NOT frame that debate around her biology because it should be about her experience and ability.

he only one equating women to menstruaters is you lot.

"You lot". Nice.

There are other petition platforms? See if one if those is brave enough to take a stand or shall we go with the written word? You can still hand deliver petitions to downing street right?

The only one equating women to menstruaters is you lot.

We just want to be referred to as women - as we always have been. Not menstruators. Not cervix havers. Not gestators. Not uterus owners. Not chest feeders.

Women.