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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A query about third spaces

160 replies

SometimesLateAtNight · 21/06/2020 22:43

When people talk about third spaces as a possible solution, do they generally mean that the third space is for anyone who cares to use it, or that the third space is reserved for trans persons only?

I thought I was about as peak trans-ed as I could get but I saw a post today about this issue and suddenly I can’t get past the third space thing seeming.... wrong. I’ll try and attach the post here.

If third spaces are specifically for trans people (of both sexes), how does that provide any dignity for the trans person who has no nefarious intent and truly just wishes to pass and live as the opposite sex? Wouldn’t that be really quite humiliating to have to go, as a passing man or woman, into the ‘trans’ toilets and ‘out’ yourself?

And if the third spaces are for everyone, how is the safety of trans people any better protected than if they used the bathroom which accords with their biological sex? Surely a trans woman who passes poorly or not at all is just as likely to be assaulted in the free for all third space by a man, as in the men’s bathroom?

I can’t stress enough how much (due to past experiences) I want women’s spaces to remain just that, women’s spaces but... I also don’t want genuine trans people to live without the basic dignity and safety im seeking to preserve for myself. How do you reconcile these notions? Or do you not? Is this just an example of TRAs ruining it for everyone?

A query about third spaces
OP posts:
SarahTancredi · 21/06/2020 23:00

Thing is its fir them to sort that out isnt it?

Why do we have to?

Women fought for years to get womens spaces set up.

People with disabilities had to fight for facilities they could use.

There would be alot of support for their fight for a third space. We could have worked together to achieve that.

But no, they just wanted everyone elses stuff the effects on the people who's space it actually is.

Put the work in like everyone else had to.

SometimesLateAtNight · 21/06/2020 22:59

*LockdownLump

I also don’t want genuine trans people to live without the basic dignity and safety im seeking to preserve for myself

Can you please clarify what a genuine trans person is?*

Apologies if I’ve caused any offence. I suppose I was meaning, any person who is not using the third space or their new identity to gain access to women or for personal sexual kicks, but rather because they truly feel they are the opposite sex and live their lives in that way.

OP posts:
Melia100 · 21/06/2020 22:58

We have gender neutral toilets here. Self enclosed, floor to ceiling doors etc.

So long as they co-exist with same sex provision ie women's loos, what's the problem?

Anyone, including transpeople, can use the gender neutral loos. Women can use the single sex loos if they'd rather. Ditto men for men's single sex loos. Everybody has a safe, private loo. Why is this so hard??!!

Women who are obsessed with trans safety can use the gender neutral one in their workplace too, to normalise the fact that the gender neutral loo isn't 'just' for transpeople.

Seriously, the problem isn't that this is a hard or difficult problem, the problem is fucking TWAW which removes the possibility of compromise before we even get started.

Thisismytimetoshine · 21/06/2020 22:57

So, a unisex space, without demanding that the women's space becomes unisex.

HappyPunky · 21/06/2020 22:56

@LockdownLump

I always took it to be additional self contained facilities that could be used by everyone - for example dads out with their young daughters

Same. Would be handy if they put baby changing facilities in this third space too.

Yes, I always felt awful changing DD in disabled toilets because she was uncooperative so it took a lot longer than at home.
Thisismytimetoshine · 21/06/2020 22:56

A third space would be for those who weren't happy to use the space in line with their sex. So as a male bodied person, if you weren't comfortable in the gents for whatever reason, you would use it instead of using the ladies.
The option to use the facilities in line with your sex will remain, of course.

LockdownLump · 21/06/2020 22:53

I always took it to be additional self contained facilities that could be used by everyone - for example dads out with their young daughters

Same. Would be handy if they put baby changing facilities in this third space too.

JellySlice · 21/06/2020 22:51

I think you summed it up perfectly in your last sentence.

LockdownLump · 21/06/2020 22:51

I also don’t want genuine trans people to live without the basic dignity and safety im seeking to preserve for myself

Can you please clarify what a genuine trans person is?

HappyPunky · 21/06/2020 22:51

I always took it to be additional self contained facilities that could be used by everyone - for example dads out with their young daughters.

If transwomen are at risk of assault in the men's its because the men in there are homophobic or transphobic but if its extra would the violent men bother?