A query about third spaces

Give me a petition for gender neutral provision alongside single sex, and I'll sign it.

Melia, this one was started by Fionne and Miranda: www.change.org/p/boris-johnson-a-plea-for-third-spaces-for-transgender-men-and-women

The aim is definitely a big issue. Esp in places where there's drunkeness occuring!

Other issues with mixed sex. I assume they wouldn't have urinals? Meaning both the men and the women have to queue for longer. Who does this help?

Also men aren't used to queueing and in plenty of circs they won't. They'll nip outside or somewhere quiet and piss there. This isn't a step forward is it.

shiny

My shit smells like roses so its all good

Dh told me the wee smell is partly cos their wee smells stronger and partly cos of the urinal flush 😳

Ive no idea but ds 1 was trying to convince me that its much more difficult to aim than id think...so I’m not sure what to believe

I think the fact that women's shit smells is shocking to some! Like that guy back in Victorian times who was so shocked on his wedding night to find out women have pubes

IME the gets smells worse. I realised I was walking into the gents once by accident at the O2 (didn't have glasses on) when the smell hit me just before seeing a row of backs at the urinals!

I've never seen shit or blood all over the ladies, and I have been in some really very skanky places.

DH says the bus station ones are really grim though, both sexes.

Sometimes on these thread people will say the gents smells and they miss the bogs (which is true...but partly because of the urinals if they are used)

And then you get women who say that the ladies smells of shit...that there can be shit on the walls and blood all over the seat

And i think....where the fuck do you live!!!

Tell you what GimmeAy

While I'm writing to the planners, you can write to this charity and complain about this activity, tell them they are wasting their money. Deal?

forgottenwomen.org/causes/safe-toilets

Women with pushchairs/ prams often leave the door open as well.

The one that I remember well is the 'escaping the dodgy bloke in the nightclub' situation. Happened not infrequently and more than once I've checked if a dodgy man has gone for a girl I didn't know.

I mean been through all this.

Anyone who finds it mind boggling that an elderly woman wouldn't want to share a bog with men is either not entirely in good faith or doesn't know many women irl tbh.

Another point- men don't want this either. Not in general. They want to be able to check their hair etc without women wandering in and out.

The facilities mixed sex facilities where you walk past the urinals to get to the cubicles- see threads in here- men don't want that! They really don't.

Why not? It's a toilet?

Oookay. For the umpteenth time:

Think about female people of faiths and cultures who are not allowed to enter such a space where a male (regardless of how the male identifies) is present.

Think about female people with disabilities such as MNetters with Autism who have talked about just not being able to manage the cognitive dissonance, or cope with their boundaries being broken, and add in females with Alzheimers, dementia, PTSD from sexual abuse or assault, females who need to catherise - Tani Grey has talked about this and having to leave doors slightly ajar to fit into a cubicle while doing it.... females who would not be able to use a space where males were present.

Think about females who have been sexually assaulted, traumatised, are plain never going to want to be enclosed, possibly alone, to undress and make themselves that vulnerable in a space where a male is present.

Think about females who plain like privacy, dignity, personal boundaries and who emotionally really would not want to use a loo or undress in a room around males using loos.

It's fabulous that you'll get your kit off and do your stuff wherever, whoever and it's 'just a loo'. It's lovely you have the privilege of being free to do that and feeling able to do that. Now meet the millions of females who don't. And can't. And won't. And will be excluded if all female spaces become mixed sex.

Toilets can smell of shit shocker!

Hold the front page

Sorry into a toilet that was open to men, that should say.

A poop?

Why the weird euphemism?

Anyway.

You honestly can't understand why a 78 year old woman wouldn't walk into the gents?

I mean that's preposterous.

Ladies toilets can stink like shit a lot. Men's toilets stink like piss

Women don’t wee and men dont poo then?

Ladies toilets can stink like shit a lot. Men's toilets stink like piss.
I'd have no issue with unisex toilets really, though I've often had diarrhoea and held it in in the ladies. In fairness - you need privacy to go for a poop.

My mum wouldn't do that in a million years. I'm sure she's not super unusual in that. Why not? It's a toilet?

GimmeAy

Well you were the one suggesting a third space by reducing the existing provision

And your seem not to be aware of the activism around female toilet provision that has been going on for years.

Maybe look into these things a bit before making off the cuff suggestions that will reduce access for women and then when this is pointed out, saying oh well you need to do X then.

All this shows to me is that you have very little interest in really common issues for women and also very little understanding of the background activism etc that has been going on.

Female toilet provision issues are even reported in the MSM from time to time it's not niche.

on this topic, rather confusingly a vigorous trans rights campaigner is now suggesting that 'cis' women be compelled to use a 'third space' (toilets) as apparently two 'drunk cis-woman' karate chopped a transwomen (named as Lara Rae, 56) in a women's toilet (I can only read the headline as I am not going to click through to Pink News as their grasp of rl facts seems extremely tenuous at best) and therefore women's facilities are not safe for transwomen so 'cis-women' need to be banned from them. Now, climbing out of the looking glass for a minute - either this guy is being clever and fishing for reactions from people who will then be targeted by other activists, his account has been hacked, or he has gone round full circle and genuinely believes that trans women and women should not mix.... I am sooo confused. Either way, if he wants to campaign for a third space for trans women, we can have our single sex facilities back - job done. I like the above thoughts about a third unisex facility, rather than making the ladies into a totally unfit for purpose unisex facility like some organisations have done.

Well it's Building Control legislation that you need to be addressing then.

Women need more facilities than men for biological reasons and we currently do not have enough provision. If you've even been to the theatre you will have observed this.

We need more facilities not less.

A good reason for leaving the ladies alone and making the gents mixed sex, rather than vice versa as is happening all over the place at the moment.

Well they could divide the toilets up 1/3rd each - Female/Male/Unisex.

Sure.. I'd probably be happy using (properly designed) either-sex loos in most places. But I absolutely support the need for single sex loos etc too.

It doesn’t matter who would use multi sex areas

'I'd imagine if the queues for the women's toilets/changing rooms were too long, women would have no issue going into the trans room instead. '

SOME women.

My mum wouldn't do that in a million years. I'm sure she's not super unusual in that.

GimmeAy
I think you have made an odd assumption. Being so desperate not to soil yourself in public that you are forced to use a space you dont feel safe in is not 'having no issue' with using a mixed sex facility.

In my youth, in a nightclub, i've often gone into a gents toilet when the queue for the ladies was a mile long and no queue for the mens. I apologised loudly walking in and kept my eyes diverted, but I never felt threatened. Though they were particularly stinky. When you gotta go, you gotta go though.