Squeamish about far right hangers on

@SpartacusAutisticus it isn't dim to have principles and stick to them.

Conservative can also simply mean that you don't end up having to throw the baby out with the bathwater. That you retain what's proved workable, good or essential, and make incremental changes, instead

Those same people would normally have no interest in many of the things that concern feminism - it only interests them now because it challenges the more conservative world they want to live in, and that may have little to do with actually caring about women

It's odd to find myself having to defend the British Conservative party ( having been a life long Labour voter - until the last election when in spoiled my ballot), but 'conservatism' can mean different things. It need not mean being backward and 'traditional' or anti-feminist at all.
It can simply mean working/progressing within existing structures, and not feeling that that society has to be radically re-structured in order to achieve progress.

I believe there are plenty of people on the right who want to maintain safe spaces for women. It's important to keep an open dialogue with people with different political viewpoints too

Of course we musn't forget that the British Tory party has now had two female leaders......and the Labour party, which specialises in the advocacy for equality struggles has yet to have even one.

Sometimes you looked at Jeremy Corbyn's front bench and it made you think that some people were there purely on their equality tick-box credentials rather than on ability or talent.

And one of the only MPs to actually stand up and speak on behalf of the retention of single sex spaces, before the consultation on the GRA closed, was a male Tory MP ( David Davies). Not one Labour MP did that - either male or female.

Some of those on the right or religious groups have an interest in this issue, not because they particularly care about women, but because this issue fits into their larger world view. A sometimes reilgious world view where men are macho and women mostly subservient and stay at home and the sexes are very much separated

I don't recognise this portrayal in the contemporary Conservative Party at all. It seems to be a vision that comes straight out of contemporary American politics and divisions - not British ones.

Just look at the number of lifelong labour voters who were effectively disenfranchised at the last election.
There has been an awful lot of soul searching and much distress and I think it will continue for a long time.
The irony of the current government and the communist party being the only parties who know what a woman is!

That's fine @DidoLamenting. I am happy for my view to be challenged and am also open to the idea that some people on the right, such as yourself, do not think like that. If I met you in 'real life' I would not dismiss you because of my earlier post. I would hear you out and get to know you and your personality beyond labels such 'left' & 'right'.

Still on my NC here, but:

It's a bit of a misnomer to refer to "left" and "right" here - mainly because it leads to the confusion that's come up several times already on this thread, i.e. the economic vs. the social spectrum of positions in politics. Here, we're clearly looking at a "social conservatism" vs. "social progression" axis though. They are, of course, not entirely independent variables. As in: it makes sense that someone who supports ideals of equality would inevitably realise that their vision is not particularly compatible with unfettered capitalism - and vice versa.

Still, it's an important distinction to make in this particular context, because what's actually happening is an internal rift in the socially progressive camp with both sides' stances also being partially shared by social conservatives:

GC feminists and conservatives will generally agree that biological differences between men and women are real and matter - but this tends to be viewed in the context of it being a source of oppression by feminists and as a normative statement by conservatives ...

... who also very much tend to believe, however, that gender is very real and matters. And should be part of determining the manner in which an individual's life is lived. And this, again, is obviously a position very much shared by TRAs (but not by GC feminists). This is very much also the reason why social conservatives are by no means unified on trans issues either. If you look at countried like Iran, I think you'll find it rather hard to argue that their trans policies are informed by abundant wokeness - rather, they're just so dead-set on ideas on gender that they're happier to throw biology under the bus if push comes to shove.

As for the question in the OP: my personal litmus test for working with the "dark" side is usually women's reproductive issues and homosexuality. Hence, I've generally no problem collaborating with the most rabidly neoliberal "women in business" outlet imaginable - but any organisation associated in any way shape or form with "pray the gay away", foetal heartbeat arguments and the like are out.

I don't trust the people on the right at all - some of them are mainly interested in all of this because they're the type that think that men should be men and women should stay in the kitchen

That's a pretty big ad sweeping generalisation, which assumes certain things which are not necessarily true at all

It's a huge generalisation and pretty closed minded. I'm politically on the right- I don't think that.

@Justhadathought I wrote that badly, but not having an edit button I left it. I think that women' issues are beyond left & right politics. I believe that women's issues tend to be trampled on when something more important comes along, or women's issues are only used to further a different goal - not as a worthy cause in its own right. I believe there are plenty of people on the right who want to maintain safe spaces for women. It's important to keep an open dialogue with people with different political viewpoints too.

My scepticism comes from the fact that I have seen (mainly men) on the right, proclaim some kind of newfound interest in feminism and women's safety when it comes to the Bradford grooming cases (when, shock horror, it's non-white men who are the criminals), yet I can bet you that those same men show zero interest or even hostility to women's safety or issues otherwise. I see a little correlation here - some of those on the right or religious groups have an interest in this issue, not because they particularly care about women, but because this issue fits into their larger world view. A sometimes relkgious world view where men are macho and women mostly subserviant and stay at home and the sexes are very much seperated. Those same people would normally have no interest in many of the things that concern feminism - it only interests them now because it challenges the more conservative world they want to live in, and that may have little to do with actually caring about women.

I don't trust the people on the right at all - some of them are mainly interested in all of this because they're the type that think that men should be men and women should stay in the kitchen

That's a pretty big ad sweeping generalisation, which assumes certain things which are not necessarily true at all.

Left/Right can, simply. be seen as different economic vision/systems .
Left/ Right can also be seen as the group versus the individual in which left sees society in terms of groups acting in favour of their own interests, and the Right seeing society in terms of the individual acting in favour of their own interests.......and so on.

'The American narrative' seems to have truly taken over and informed much of the discourse on the Left in Britain these days......so it's all 'Right Wing fundamentalist/evangelical Christianity versus Democratic Urban Liberalism.

I don’t 100% agree with feminism. It doesn’t stop me from supporting policies they have that align with my opinions. I’m not sure how extreme these organisations are but unless they’re terrorists or oppose a view that is very important to you I wouldn’t think it would be an issue to unite over a single issue.

Hitler was a vegetarian

I understand why you're squeamish. People want to sign this document for different reasons, but it's not that unusual. For example, it's perfectly possible that someone from the far left might agree with someone on the far-right regarding something to do with the NHS.

I don't trust the people on the right at all - some of them are mainly interested in all of this because they're the type that think that men should be men and women should stay in the kitchen. They happen to agree with feminists on the same goal, but for totally different reasons. The reason why these two groups are so prominent is because they're the only groups with enough internal backing and support around them. Plenty of others agreee too, but are too afraid to say anything.

Left and right are not moral standpoints, they are largely economic positions

Yes, and yet increasingly the contemporary, usually youthful left is determined to make them into moral standpoints, in which the so-called 'progressive' position is seen as without question the morally superior position to inhabit.

I don't even think that ,any take the trouble to investigate, or even inhabit for a while, the imagined, reviled opposite flank. So, you don't need, personally, ever to read anything written in The Spectator because your tribe accepts, purely on hearsay, that this is a bad publication.

Personally think some of the most interesting, writers, commentators, authors are those that have in the past firmly inhabited the left, but who have since become disillusioned with it. You can only really critique something if you understand it. If you've been there, yourself.

I'm not sure petitions are really effective in the first place, even as they seem very popular these days. They create a feeling of political action where there really isn't any.

However, any movement at all, does, & will, bring together all sorts of people with different backgrounds and wider intentions. That's the nature of mass democracy and certainly of issues around which many coalesce.

The main reason that conservatives and GC leftists tend to be on a similar page about this is that they both believe that the material, physical body is real, and that the differences in male and female bodies matter - they make a difference to people's lives. It's not just chance that they happen to line up.

Is one of these groups organising the petition, OP?

Is there a likelihood they will be publicising it and directing the narrative? For example going on TV saying 'this is what we think and why, and look, we have all these people who think the same'.

I take some comfort in knowing that I will never knowingly vote these people into power

I think if they are running the petition, I would probably make my decision based on whether or not I would be prepared to vote them into power if they were the only group willing to enforce women's rights in accordance with GC thinking.

If not, I don't think I'd align myself with them for this. Although if they are only signatories and have zero control over the messaging, I might consider it, depending on the context (wording, how and why the petition came into being, etc).

I accept the fact that right wing women love their children just as much as Feminists do.

It’s a tough one.

For example, while I agree with WOLf (USA GC org) on a lot of things I do think that their joining with the right has ultimately led to a leaning to the right on issues.

For example the recent SCOTUS ruling. Wolf filed a brief against it. While I saw their point, they like other women’s orgs did could have advocated for a position supporting protection while still defining sex as natal sex... which is in fact what ultimately SCOTUS did.

If you’re going to work with the right you REALLY have to stick to your guns wrt the issues you don’t agree on.

To me, though, there's a difference in partnering with, say a Christian conservative women who puts her pro-life energy into volunteering to help struggling families, and a Christian conservative organisation that lobbies to ban abortion and supports the criminalisation of gay sex, for example.