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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Bunbury's guide to community disruptors part 5

983 replies

ItsLateHumpty · 20/06/2020 15:04

The useful Bunbury Guide to Spotting Community Disruptors is constantly evolving.

The best research and advice is not to engage with community disruptors and trolls. As ever, if you suspect troll activity, report it to MNHQ.

Remember our monitors would like to silence us by fair means or foul.

This is a continuation of the Public Service Announcement thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3691023-Bunburys-guide-to-community-disruptors-part-4

If and when you see threads plopped into FWR, especially a curious repeat of well worn topics, maybe check for poster history before engaging. AS is your friend.

There are a number of posts/posters/threads that are reproduced on Twitter or Facebook to foment controversy using screen shots & flagging to either MNHQ to have threads or posters deleted.. Sometimes, it’s used to approach commissioning editors with ideas for articles. It’s a tiresome tactic that we always have community disruptor posters who themselves post the comments that they then highlight elsewhere as purported evidence of racism, religious intolerance, anti-men sentiments, or transphobia.

Some helpful links can be found in the ‘Break it Down for me’ and ‘It never happens’ threads but in essence FermatsTheorem recommended “that in the absence of a block/hide poster button, I suggest the following strategy (given that you're talking to the lurkers).

Do not name check the sealion. Instead, respond to a depersonalised paraphrase:

"It is sometimes erroneously suggested that blah. Blah is wrong for the following reasons (short and pithy). If you need more information re. debunking blah, here's a link."

Then (this next step is important to combat derailment) go back up thread to the last useful contribution to the discussion, make sure you do name check that contributor, and pick up the discussion from that point.”

Go well Witches Gin

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ChattyLion · 22/08/2020 22:38

Highame good article.
I vote for a new sticky, outlining the importance of freedom for women to talk (as Kirkup describes) and also with that useful phrase restated, that ‘there is no right not to be offended ‘.Smile

EchoCardioGran · 22/08/2020 22:24

I note that was written in 2018 highame. Feels (to me) like we are going backwards.

ChattyLion · 22/08/2020 22:21

Good thread thank you for the link Humpty

highame · 22/08/2020 22:10

Whilst searching for something, I came across this article. Given the conversations of late, you might want a read

www.spectator.co.uk/article/if-mumsnet-can-stand-up-for-free-speech-why-can-t-mps-

EchoCardioGran · 22/08/2020 14:25

I had a similar case of Branston poisoning Nacht, the build up to the great chomp and then the taste alarm goes off. Sigh. Disappointment.
In other news, jury still out at hq but they see where I'm coming from.

ErrolTheDragon · 22/08/2020 13:57

I had the acronym beginning with A listed in my ‘banned words’ post upthread - I’m now wondering if I should just ask MN to add to it

The current guidance is:
^ Will you consider deleting posts that associate transgender people with autogynephila (AGP)?
This is something we'd look at on a case by case basis, though we'll definitely delete posts which generalise.^

So, we know generalisations aren't ok - I have no argument with that, clearly it's wrong to associate trans people in general with something that only pertains to a subset of a heterogenous group under a wide umbrella. It also seems that being specific about individuals isn't ok either. How are women supposed to navigate the space between - the subsection of people identifying as TW who appear to have this trait? It's certainly not ok to have a situation where women feel they can't risk having a discussion for fear of strikes if they overstep the invisible and variable line.

ItsLateHumpty · 22/08/2020 13:43

Chatty while enjoying your cheesy snack, you might want to have a look at this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/4002092-FWR-clarification-deletion-and-strikes?

I had the acronym beginning with A listed in my ‘banned words’ post upthread - I’m now wondering if I should just ask MN to add to it Sad

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highame · 22/08/2020 11:21

Methinks a lot of this is about sunlight and what effect it's had. Much more scrutiny and I don't think it's us and I don't think it's MN. Lots more around and twitchy and (it might just be me) more overt

ArabellaScott · 22/08/2020 11:10

Yes, Chatty, I've had post deleted for using the same word-that-must-not-be-spoken. File it as useful information that some people are very, very concerned that that word is not used.

AskDan · 22/08/2020 11:06

I just came on here to find out what had happened to the thread. The podcast was compelling. It was so sad and the woman speaking clearly had nothing left to lose.

DialSquare · 22/08/2020 11:01

I wondered what happened to that thread ChattyLion. Such a shame as the subject was interesting. I watch Kellie-Jay on YouTube but hadn't subscribed to the podcast yet so I've just done that.

ChattyLion · 22/08/2020 10:53

I am going to have a little cheese and pickle snack after reading this Smile

ChattyLion · 22/08/2020 10:51

Oh, that thread of Posie interviewing a mother of a ROGD child about theIr family’s actual experience has been deleted because the thread title broke guidelines.

I really feel the deletions are stopping women from naming the problem and describing their/our experiences.

On a practical note I think MNHQ would save everybody’s time if they published a list of the banned words, because it looks very much like deletion isn’t about context and nuanced mods decision-making. Looks like it’s about posters using particular factually descriptive or uncomfortable words. These are not abusive or offensive words used gratuitously for the purpose of shocking though. If that’s the basis for deletion, it should be openly done, with a clear list of words we must avoid, if that is the policy. MNHQ should make it plain so we can discuss it.

The zapped thread title used a word that loosely rhymes with ‘vault’ but is spelt differently. The word refers in this usage to an authoritarian or abusive belief system or community. I can’t see what other word could have been objected to that title. (I’m assuming that we can write ROGD freely?)

I had a post deleted recently on here for (I presume) using a three letter acronym in relation to a male fetish about their fantasy of womanhood which was entirely relevant to the experience I was describing and used in context.

It certainly feels like there are more banned words than HQ’s sticky note describes and it certainly feels like the tightrope MNHQ and the mods are trying to walk is now bringing them much more down on the side of the complaining Eyes than of women talking their truth on here. I’m really disappointed. I’ve been on FWR for ages because it’s anonymous and mainstream and it allows women to share our experiences.
If we can’t share the ones which upset men, thats really sad. We all learn a great deal from each other on here- I know I have.

If there are some uncomfortable aspects of an issue, the language used to describe that issue (when used in context of a real personal experience) should not be more important than allowing the actual raising and discussing of the actual issue itself. Shouldn’t it..? Otherwise, whose work are we doing here? Sad

ErrolTheDragon · 22/08/2020 10:10

I'm sure nothing can live in something as salty as marmite. Osmotic pressure.
DH had a clear out in January and binned my marmite, I don't like it enough to bother replacing it. Miso paste makes an acceptable substitute (that's probably an 'only on MN' observationGrin)

boatyardblues · 22/08/2020 09:36

You are all reminding me of an aged family friend who used to bring out her legacy jar of Marmite whenever we visited as kids. It was so ancient it had crystalised and had it’s own unique flavour. (Yes, we ate it - we had been raised to eat up and not make a fuss. Asking for jam instead was riskier - furry - so we stuck with the Marmite.)

ArabellaScott · 22/08/2020 09:29

Bit worried to hear about Branston going off - I have a heirloom jar I'd hoped to pass on to the kids. At least, one of the kids. If they're good.

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 22/08/2020 08:58

Absolutely humpty

It’ll just be another example of threads on FWR being held to a higher standard

Though i do think its fair enough that MNHQ have issued the occasional warning, sometimes I forget where i am and think other people can’t read it 😀

ItsLateHumpty · 22/08/2020 08:52

I agree RufustheSniggeringReindeer and our friend who’s complaining hasn’t ever posted here in the NN they’re complaining from which is a bit Hmm but as the mods mod here harder than else where and as we’re loosing whole threads atm, I’m probably being a little lots paranoid

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RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 22/08/2020 08:38

Its not a thread about a thread

Its a thread about lots of threads

This happens occasionally on many other boards

Someone will reference another thread about wearing a mask for example or a beauty product they saw mentioned

ItsLateHumpty · 22/08/2020 08:36

... off Branston

Does it go off? [shocked] I’ve had some kicking about the fridge for a while and had a cheese and pickle sandwich off the back of this thread and it seemed fine.
What happens when it goes off nachthexe?

In other news please keep this thread general and avoid making it a TAAT - I’ve seen a complaint to MN because obvs us talking here is a worry I guess.

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DianasLasso · 22/08/2020 08:22

I spotted the AMA and was immediately very Hmm about it. The way the person talked about the patients allegedly under their care did not ring true at all.

JellyFishSquish · 22/08/2020 00:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

nachthexe · 22/08/2020 00:30

I tried to poison myself with off Branston today. It was a terrible waste of two freshly warmed crusty buns.

nachthexe · 22/08/2020 00:27

Right? Made me pissy.

EchoCardioGran · 21/08/2020 23:27

Got it FannyCann, doesn't ring true at all. A proper MH professional doesn't talk like that and its' Friday night. Nuff said.Reported.