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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Bunbury's guide to community disruptors part 5

983 replies

ItsLateHumpty · 20/06/2020 15:04

The useful Bunbury Guide to Spotting Community Disruptors is constantly evolving.

The best research and advice is not to engage with community disruptors and trolls. As ever, if you suspect troll activity, report it to MNHQ.

Remember our monitors would like to silence us by fair means or foul.

This is a continuation of the Public Service Announcement thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3691023-Bunburys-guide-to-community-disruptors-part-4

If and when you see threads plopped into FWR, especially a curious repeat of well worn topics, maybe check for poster history before engaging. AS is your friend.

There are a number of posts/posters/threads that are reproduced on Twitter or Facebook to foment controversy using screen shots & flagging to either MNHQ to have threads or posters deleted.. Sometimes, it’s used to approach commissioning editors with ideas for articles. It’s a tiresome tactic that we always have community disruptor posters who themselves post the comments that they then highlight elsewhere as purported evidence of racism, religious intolerance, anti-men sentiments, or transphobia.

Some helpful links can be found in the ‘Break it Down for me’ and ‘It never happens’ threads but in essence FermatsTheorem recommended “that in the absence of a block/hide poster button, I suggest the following strategy (given that you're talking to the lurkers).

Do not name check the sealion. Instead, respond to a depersonalised paraphrase:

"It is sometimes erroneously suggested that blah. Blah is wrong for the following reasons (short and pithy). If you need more information re. debunking blah, here's a link."

Then (this next step is important to combat derailment) go back up thread to the last useful contribution to the discussion, make sure you do name check that contributor, and pick up the discussion from that point.”

Go well Witches Gin

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
FloralBunting · 13/07/2020 13:53

Top tip: if a goady wanker posts an attention seeking load of shite, be it open goad, or lady brain sympathy grandstand, ignore that post and reply to the last sensible, woman focused post on the thread. You owe no one your time or attention for a start, and you are making an active, pro woman choice when you focus on them rather than male people and those who insist we bow to them.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 13/07/2020 12:45

why I can't always let things go unchallenged. I hate the thought that misogynistic controlling bullies will win.

I know that this feels like a win-win situation. Win when they get attention, win if they're ignored. But, tbh, to me, the latter feels quite paltry and it's rather sad if that's one of the life achievements at their memorial service or on their tombstone.

My goady posts were ignored on Mumsnet FWR.

To me, answering those posts reinforces the gaping maw that men's needs and demands for attention must be centred and that their rules of engagement are to be privileged over women's, even on an FWR forum. But then again, I'm not anyone's protocol- not even my own all the time

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/07/2020 12:33

Yes that's exactly what it feels like.

Yes, I have also been a victim of coercive control DV so I do feel this too Thanks it's a major reason why I can't always let things go unchallenged. I hate the thought that misogynistic controlling bullies will win.

highame · 13/07/2020 12:28

Thanks for that. I was on the right track

TinselAngel · 13/07/2020 12:26

it feels like coercive control

Yes that's exactly what it feels like.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 13/07/2020 12:23

The trouble is that someone (often someone naive without particularly good arguments or analysis) will always respond to goading and then they get to spout their nonsense in response unchallenged. It's a hard tightrope to walk between letting that happen and letting them take over the thread. I'm not a saint myself, I do frequently respond when I should maybe let things go.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 13/07/2020 12:19

@highame

Give me clues as to what to avoid. I already sussed out the obvious ones and didn't join in with the threads but how do you get this sense, I am new here and want to discuss women. I joined to discuss women and their issues. If I want to discuss men's issues I'll go somewhere else, or is that too simple?
Take a look at some of the links here for topics that might outline it for you:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3438714-Bunbury-s-Public-Service-Announcement-2

highame · 13/07/2020 11:56

Give me clues as to what to avoid. I already sussed out the obvious ones and didn't join in with the threads but how do you get this sense, I am new here and want to discuss women. I joined to discuss women and their issues. If I want to discuss men's issues I'll go somewhere else, or is that too simple?

Kit19 · 13/07/2020 11:53

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 13/07/2020 11:49

It's horrible. It's like we're being shouldered out and everybody is engaging with our abusers.

Completely wretched.

I know people differ on this and the mantra is, "What about the lurkers?" but it feels like coercive control and allowing posters who are not acting in good faith to set the agenda and it is feeding them the attention that they want and taking support and attention away from good faith posters.

wrongsideofhistorymyarse · 13/07/2020 11:37

i'm sorry Tinsel.

TinselAngel · 13/07/2020 11:20

Tinsel, this lot must be a real kick in the teeth. I hope they are staying away from your thread.

It's horrible. It's like we're being shouldered out and everybody is engaging with our abusers.

DianasLasso · 13/07/2020 11:14

Yes I'd noticed he was back. (I did say on one thread that due to long experience I now had a kind of Larry-filter whereby I just scroll past his comments automatically without reading them).

madwoman1ntheattic · 13/07/2020 00:50

@Ereshkigalangcleg

It’s like back in the larrygrylls days when you couldn’t post for tripping over him and his mate. (I know Larry is still around. Fortunately he got bored with FWR.)

And J A P A B

I clearly summoned the ghost. Ffs. Tinsel, this lot must be a real kick in the teeth. I hope they are staying away from your thread.
Mammatino · 12/07/2020 19:04

Last night there was a thread started about not fitting into feminism. A lot of good faith posters sent some links, I saw them and sent volunteer forms off and some subscriptions. These boards are fwr. We centre our struggles. I keep seeing these posts and hearing the flank of the wheels as my more knowledgeable comrades turn the guns. This makes me proud but it also upsets me that energy is being wasted. I’ve branched out, my sister in law has read these boards and others. We are booking on the 2021 conference....all thanks to a friendly sock.

Antibles · 12/07/2020 19:02

How can anyone actually be arsed to make sockpuppets and go to all this trouble? How do they muster the actual energy?

Because they're not expending time and energy on their share of domestic drudgery?

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 12/07/2020 18:57

Digging into the PSAs from 2018! Links to research, a Guardian piece about sealions, JAQs etc. Plus Donna Zuckerberg and the Greek connection which feels particularly pertinent in these days of post-Reddit closedown philosophers looking for a new forum.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3438714-Bunbury-s-Public-Service-Announcement-2

TinselAngel · 12/07/2020 18:49

I feel sick.

FloralBunting · 12/07/2020 18:35

For crying out loud. Pleases, AGP posters, come one, come all, to tell us all about the deeply meaningful struggles you had that now mean women's rights are opt in based on male sadness.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/07/2020 14:23

Eventually they become frustrated and start to make accusations, or lie, to try to get a reaction from you.

YY. This happened to me the other night.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 12/07/2020 14:20

It’s like back in the larrygrylls days when you couldn’t post for tripping over him and his mate. (I know Larry is still around. Fortunately he got bored with FWR.)

And J A P A B

Thelnebriati · 12/07/2020 13:31

When one tactic doesn't work, they switch to another. So if you stop reacting to one hot button they search for another one to hook you with. If you can disengage, you can watch the process as they run through various topics, and it becomes quite interesting to watch.
Eventually they become frustrated and start to make accusations, or lie, to try to get a reaction from you.

R0wantrees · 12/07/2020 13:05

I've remembered my arse of an ex who would argue snow was warm just to win some imaginary ego points. Endlessly. Gaslighting, bullshitting, gish galloping, ad homs, the lot.

Flowers Interestingly, once I was wise to what mine was doing & immune to his manipulations, he started (inaccurately) appropriating the language of abuse/control pattern dynamics. It was all rather desperate.
ScrimpshawTheSecond · 12/07/2020 12:51

I've remembered my arse of an ex who would argue snow was warm just to win some imaginary ego points. Endlessly. Gaslighting, bullshitting, gish galloping, ad homs, the lot.

It was actually prob a it quite good training grounds for this type of bad faith 'debator' - one can win the argument by holding fast to truth and common sense and getting wise to the tricks, but by god it's tiring.

He was an abusive arse, too. Probably it's a profile. Maybe just misogyny manifest.

wellbehavedwomen · 12/07/2020 12:41

@ScrimpshawTheSecond

How can anyone actually be arsed to make sockpuppets and go to all this trouble? How do they muster the actual energy?
Some people really, really want attention at all costs, I think.

I need to get better at not clicking into threads at all.

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