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Time article

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Wellthatsit · 20/06/2020 09:41

Has anyone seen this article by AJ Sass in Time (I am assuming that is THE 'Time' magazine.) Several sweeping inaccuracies in it, and ridiculous insinuations (like the fact that there is a Robert Galbraith who was a conversion therapist). This is truly how young people think, isn't it? I am depressed by that.
time.com/5855633/jk-rowling-gender-identity/

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AsTreesWalking · 23/06/2020 09:04

The whole 'fandom' thing is just weird. I have a highly intelligent friend who is brilliant at her job, and really interesting. She is ask self proclaimed fangirl, and is just fanatical about various sci-fi books and tv. She goes to conventions, knows all the actors, and looks up to them as mentors. Obviously, she sees JK as there devil incarnate. She invests enormous amounts of time and money into this, and really it's her main emotional support. I really don't understand, but each to their own. Except - except that all of this fanaticism is inextricably bound up with real world morality and stance. Anyone stepping outside the wokesphere is immediately cast off as horrible, disappointing, not who they pretended to be. It is immature. It is the mind set of an adolescent. She's in her 40s.

littlbrowndog · 23/06/2020 08:46

It’s true about Harry Potter and lying

And reading the ikabog and you can see how people can be coerced into telling lies and doing things they don’t want to do

It’s very very prophetic to where we are now

MoltoAgitato · 23/06/2020 08:20

She’s also pointing out they are wrong, and that their nice simple rainbow and unicorn filled world is far more complex and that you can’t just go around going TWAW without some real, grown up consequences. People are being told there is a penalty, a cost to their virtue signalling and they don’t like that.

Fundamentally, I think there is enough doubt in enough of the trans “allies” to provoke such an extreme reaction.

merrymouse · 23/06/2020 07:47

The most worrying part about all of this is that JKR hasn’t said anything transphobic. All she has done is stand up for women’s rights and pointed out conflicts.

People aren’t angry with her because they can show that she is wrong. They are angry because she has failed to show tribal allegiance.

TehBewilderness · 23/06/2020 05:46

@Thingybob

As an aside, why had the word 'problematic' become so fashionable? I find it irritating and problematic.
When you are too lazy or incompetent to say what the problem is that the behavior or action presents you simply declare it to be problematic and everyone knows it is bad but no one knows quite how it is bad so no one need think any further about it. It is rather like being transphobic. An all purpose criticism that requires nothing because it means nothing.
MoleSmokes · 23/06/2020 04:14

What an odd title for that article - and it does not read like something imposed by the publication:

"I'm a Nonbinary Writer of Youth Literature. J.K. Rowling's Comments on Gender Identity Reinforced My Commitment to Better Representation"

Staggeringly egotistical: "This article is all about ME!"

I haven't read it yet (not sure if I can be bothered TBH) as just scanning the first few paragraphs it is clear it is "all about ME and how CLEVER and IMPORTANT I am"!

"I knew something was off before I’d fully woken up. I shut off my phone alarm and then noticed triple the number of my usual overnight notifications. One name kept appearing: J.K. Rowling."

(So clever! Even half asleep she "knew something was off"! Even though not fully awake, alert to the number of "overnight notifications" and able to estimate the size of the increase. . . . What a desperately sad sack!)

"I didn’t know exactly what she’d said, but a quick trip to Twitter confirmed what I’d already suspected: Rowling had doubled down on her claim that transgender people are confused or misguided about their gender. First, it was a series of tweets. Then, an essay on her website."

(So very clever! Anticipating JKR's every move!)

"Rowling’s views are not new to me. There have been discussions online about her transphobia for quite some time, both public and private. I’ve also seen the breakdown of her concerning portrayal of a transgender woman in the mystery series she writes under the pen name Robert Galbraith — the name she shares with an anti-LGBTQ psychiatrist who practiced conversion therapy."

(How incredibly clever - and right up to the minute with "Rowling's views"! In with the In Crowd too! Party to "private discussions" online with others who share her opinions! Who is this amazingly important and influential personage! )

The Robert Galbraith "link" - beyond shocking! Pure propaganda.

So very disappointed too that she failed to detect that "JK Rowling aka Robert Galbraith" is an anagram of "Hitler is my hero and I am literally a Nazi". Hmm

Wellthatsit · 21/06/2020 09:35

Thank you well behaved woman. You express so clearly exactly what I feel. It is so sad that this has happened and there are going to be so many damaged children who were already struggling who get let down by this crazy ideology.

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wellbehavedwomen · 21/06/2020 01:08

Yep. The Potter books are literally about having the courage to stand up and speak the truth, when it is important, even if that makes you an outcast.

You'd think someone capable of a graduate course of study might pause to reflect upon that. Dr Robert Heath's middle name being Galbraith would not have been a fact commonly known. Given most people had thankfully never heard of the man, until the frantic googling of the professionally indignant. Honestly, anyone believing Rowling knew that or had any time for him is 1) not Scottish, and 2) possessed of a longer reaching capacity than Mr Tickle.

As for the racist claims... did anyone miss her pointing out that Hermione's being black was completely in line with her writing - that she didn't specify her race, to begin with?

You know what really makes me sad, reading that Time piece? Kids should not have to connect their gender identities with their sex. There is nothing about being non-binary or identifying with traits commonly associated with the opposite sex that should be an issue. You should be able to be as masculine as you like, and still a woman, or vice versa. Your body is perfect. YOU are perfect, complete with your unique personality.

It's so depressing, that a belief system which rigidly polices gender roles, to the point anyone breaching them is convinced they must be the opposite sex, is the new progressive. How about celebrating uniqueness, and value in each person, and respecting that you're perfect, exactly as you are - and your sex isn't defined by gender traits at all? That it's just fine to express yourself as authentically and strongly as you like, because gender is free to anyone? It's just sex that is fixed.

Really do not understand why or how anyone is sucked into this. But I am so sad that they are. A lot of really vulnerable kids and children are being told their problems would be fixed if they just transitioned, and a lot of older people have a hell of a lot to apologise for.

MrsTerryPratchett · 21/06/2020 00:49

I changed all the 'hes' to 'shes' in all the interminable children's picture books DD read. Every fucking animal is male. Except for fawns, bunnies and cats. Nonsense to that.

And every time there was a wicked witch DD received a lecture on women in medicine and the suppresion of female expertise. Luckily there were witches herbalists in DH's family so he can chime in on that.

TooMinty · 20/06/2020 22:51

😊 We are on the same page Scrappy

scrappydappydoooooo · 20/06/2020 22:44

And attribute some of the leadership or ideas to someone other than Julian.

I once went through a Secret Seven book with a pencil and swapped all the Peters with Janets and vice versa and swapped all the pronouns referring to them. Then I read it. It was the one about stolen dogs.

TooMinty · 20/06/2020 19:57

@OhHolyJesus

I also realised there were some dodgy bits in Enid Blyton

Reading it to my kid and I change 'queer' to odd or strange all the way through Wink

Really? I skip the bits where Anne is portrayed as weak or unadventurous because she's a girl. And attribute some of the leadership or ideas to someone other than Julian. And the housework/food prep gets allocated evenly and not just to Anne and George (who doesn't get out of it by using a boy's name and having short hair).

PigeonToe · 20/06/2020 19:47

See, there is always this debate about separating the art from the artist, but I don't even think that applies in this case. I loved all the Harry Potter books as a kid and teenager, and I still do really, and I don't understand how anyone can be a fan of the books and what they have to say about the world, and then not understand JKR's point of view on this.

Because the books are literally about having the courage to know the truth even when everyone else, including the media, is trying to tell you otherwise. I mean, Harry gets "I must not tell lies" scratched painfully into his hand as a punishment for telling the truth that nobody wants to hear!

OhHolyJesus · 20/06/2020 19:42

I also realised there were some dodgy bits in Enid Blyton

Reading it to my kid and I change 'queer' to odd or strange all the way through Wink

Whatsnewpussyhat · 20/06/2020 19:37

But my observation has been that a lot of students now don't mature much beyond the HP reading level

I agree. Reading simply drops of the radar. It would require concentration for long periods and with technology they have become so used to instant gratification.

DrDavidBanner · 20/06/2020 19:24

@MoltoAgitato

I think the vast majority of young people heavily invested in fandoms are perhaps on the periphery of life and look to fandoms for all sorts in a not entirely healthy fashion. The internet gives them added visibility and a tribe, as well as a sense that it’s okay to take comfort in fandoms and you don’t need to engage with reality.
Thats a good point. I think social media has a lot to answer for, there seems to be a lack of nuance with everything now. I listen to a podcast called Evil Genius, its a comedy podcast about the dark side of famous historical figures, I like it because its something I'm very interested in but the idea you can just consign a great figure from history to the bin because they were human is so strange to me.

There are so many authors I loved growing up who turn out to be very questionable.

Roald Dahl
Enid Blyton
Rudyard Kipling
Charles Dickens

To name a few, I still love their work and am grateful for the world they opened up to me.

I think the only person I ever 'cancelled' was R Kelly, he is on another level of wrong.

MrsTerryPratchett · 20/06/2020 19:04

I edit Rudyard Kipling a little. When reading to DD.

MrsTerryPratchett · 20/06/2020 19:04

@donquixotedelamancha

I would be disappointed if Terry Pratchett had drunk the Koolaid had he lived.

There is not a cat in hells chance that Pratchett would have bought the nonsense. I'd love to have seen him skewer it.

Well obviously. Cheery, and people pretending to be vampires to take a big bath in the oppression of others, and the whole of Monstrous Regiment. I could bore everyone to tears go on. But you just never know. I wouldn't have called Louis CK or Jos Whedon either.
Clymene · 20/06/2020 19:02

I also realised there were some dodgy bits in Enid blyton when I was a kid - there was a fairground story (secret 7 I think?) and they were really horrible about gypsies.

But I still read them to my children. Because the Wishing Chair and some of the other books are really good.

donquixotedelamancha · 20/06/2020 18:58

I would be disappointed if Terry Pratchett had drunk the Koolaid had he lived.

There is not a cat in hells chance that Pratchett would have bought the nonsense. I'd love to have seen him skewer it.

Lamahaha · 20/06/2020 18:49

@Floisme

Who are all these grown ups who still lean on Harry Potter in graduate school?

I'm sorry if that sounds rude and unsympathetic but I just don't get it. I mean I'm still very fond of Mallory Towers and The Chalet School and Sue Barton but I don't expect comfort or sustenance from them and haven't since I was about 12.

I was a HUGE fan of Enid Blyton back in the day. I remember well one or two instances in her stories where her racism came through, and it gave me a moment of truth; one was when Anne saw a face in the window at night and she was terrified in case it was a BLACK man. Yes, that did hurt, and I remember it to this day; but that, and later discovering that EB was a horrible person and very racism certainly did not spoil my entire childhood (as the HP wokesters keep saying) and it would never occur to me, were she alive, to start a vendetta against her, burn her books, advise people not to read them, call fer her death, etc. In fact I have bought her books for my grandchildren as I remember the magic in them very well.

All I can say to these people is: grow up. Even if JK WERE as transphobic as you say, she is not responsible for your feelings.

pawpawpawpaw · 20/06/2020 18:29

I wonder how lucrative the NB children's book racket is? That article is basically a big fat advert for the author's novel, piggybacking off what I think it's safe to say is the far bigger Harry Potter series. Conflict of interest much?

MoltoAgitato · 20/06/2020 18:27

I think the vast majority of young people heavily invested in fandoms are perhaps on the periphery of life and look to fandoms for all sorts in a not entirely healthy fashion. The internet gives them added visibility and a tribe, as well as a sense that it’s okay to take comfort in fandoms and you don’t need to engage with reality.

Goosefoot · 20/06/2020 18:23

@DreadPirateLuna

I remember finding out as an adult that Roald Dahl had made anti-Semitic statements and had treated his first wife horribly. I was disappointed, but it didn't stop me loving James and the Giant Peach or reading it to my kids.
He was also terribly cruel to his daughter. I'm not sure that his books would have been as good had he been a fluffy nice person, though.
Aesopfable · 20/06/2020 18:21

Something related to the trans identification that's causing the immaturity

If they were put on puberty blockers then definitely - they have not been able to mature as this is blocked.