Excluding trans women from women's single sex spaces is discriminatory - Human Rights Watch

That's the thing though, isn't it?
I keep reading that NOT changing the GRA will take rights away from trans people. But how can it? What the TRAs have been campaigning for hasn't changed the GRA. So there is no loss of rights, but there is a pushback against non lawful demands. A loss of demands, if you like.

And for me it comes back to the unanswerable question 'What rights do trans people NOT currently have, which everyone else does?' And why should the demands of one group trump the rights of another?

16% of women experience sexual violence during there lifetime.
21% of trans people experience sexual violence during their lifetime which is made up of 18% of transwomen and 4% of trans men.

Can you confirm the occupation of the women and men you list here? For example for the men: how many of the transwomen were involved in prostitution? I am also confused how you get to 21% when it is 18% of transwomen and 4% of transmen - if you summarised those numbers it must be nearer 11% for an equal sample of men and women?

Men were more likely to be a victim of violent crime than women (2.4% of males compared with 1.3% of females)

Yes is well known which is why it is so stark that even in Brazil which has sky high murder rates, the rate of murder of transwomen is not only less than that for other men but also less than that for women.

"We are particularly concerned by media reports suggesting that the government plans to return single sex spaces to being single sex, as they were until MRAs in pomo clothing came along and fucked everything up."

I am sick of seeing 'transwomen blah blah other women'

Transwomen, being biologically male, are not a subset of women.

And

'... We are particularly concerned by media reports suggesting that the government plans to exclude trans women from women-only spaces.'

It's back to Barracker's 'pronouns are rohypnol'. I shall write to my MP pointing out that in reality that sentence is saying

'We are particularly concerned by media reports suggesting that the government planes to exclude adult males from single (female) SEX only spaces.

The data suggests women are more at risk of violence from partners or people they know, whereas both men and trans men/women are significantly more at risk from strangers.

Breakdown for trans-identifying females and trans-identifying males, please.

Please please everyone write to your MP, to Boris, to Liz Truss. They are - we need to counter.

FuchsiaFox

Could you reference those stats please, I'm not disputing them but would like to know where they came from.

Also, I wonder how 'stranger' is defined. For example, would Karen Whites crimes against his female prisoner victims be classed as a 'stranger crime'? I wouldnt have thought so?

I'm not sure what you are saying with those statistics? Are you using them to argue that males should/shouldn't be allowed in female spaces according to how the male 'identifies'?

I'm not debating this issue, but want to add in some figures.

Men were more likely to be a victim of violent crime than women (2.4% of males compared with 1.3% of females)

Stranger violence showed the largest difference in victimisation between men and women (1.4% and 0.4% respectively)

Women were more likely to be a victim of domestic violence than men (0.4% compared with 0.2%,)

43% of violent offences (563,000) were perpetrated by a stranger1, 36% (469,000) by an acquaintance, and the remaining 20% (261,000) were categorised as domestic violence across both men and women.

The majority of children and teen victims know the perpetrator.

Of sexual abuse cases reported to law enforcement, 93% of juvenile victims knew the perpetrator:
59% were acquaintances
34% were family members
7% were strangers to the victim

16% of women experience sexual violence during there lifetime.
21% of trans people experience sexual violence during their lifetime which is made up of 18% of transwomen and 4% of trans men.

37% of trans people are physically attacked a year on account of their gender identity by strangers

I actually couldn't find figures on random attacks on women by strangers.

The data suggests women are more at risk of violence from partners or people they know, whereas both men and trans men/women are significantly more at risk from strangers. But trans people are even at greater risk of stranger violence due to their gender identity compared to biological males who experience lower stranger violence then transwomen.

This is all so depressing. I feel very sorry for people who feel they are trapped in the wrong body, but I think that number of people is probably very small.

Many people, especially girls and women, feel distress that their body is not what they desparately want it to be.

With regards those people who experience distress characterised as 'gender dysphoria' there needs to be the opportunity to unpick with support the causes / contributory factors. The range/nature of causes is different for females than males.

BMJ Published 29 October 2018
'Redesigning gender identity services: an opportunity to generate evidence'
authors: Richard Byng, general practitioner and professor in primary care research, Susan Bewley, emeritus professor of obstetrics and women’s health, Damian Clifford, consultant liaison psychiatrist, Margaret McCartney, general practitioner and freelance writer
(extracts)
"A recent feature in The BMJ implied that new services are all that’s needed to improve transgender healthcare. Providing timely, sensitive services for all, including those who decide to not pursue treatment or detransition, is important. But the article did not question the steep rise in referrals of mainly young women or the potential harms of medical overdiagnosis and overtreatment" (continues)

"Regulated medical practitioners should follow a framework of evidence, not simply respond to client expectations. Creating that evidence to inform quality standards is an ethical imperative. We need research to explore the interplays between gender identity, mental health and neurodevelopmental problems, sexual orientation, autogynephilia, and unpalatable gender roles" (continues)

www.bmj.com/content/363/bmj.k4490
thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3410257-BMJ-article-We-need-research-to-explore-the-interplays-between-gender-identity-mental-health-and-neurodevelopmental-problems-sexual-orientation-autogynephilia-and-unpalatable-gender-roles#82215722

This is all so depressing. I feel very sorry for people who feel they are trapped in the wrong body, but I think that number of people is probably very small

Absolutely this.

The rest , well just look at them. Look at what they do, what they say. It's a fucking nightmare.

This is all so depressing. I feel very sorry for people who feel they are trapped in the wrong body, but I think that number of people is probably very small. All those teenage girls, often on the autism spectrum, trying to work out why they don't fit into this world of selfies and perfect beauty. Then picking up on gender dysphoria as potential diagnosis, for some it might be right, but so many make changes they regret leading to misery and suicide. Add to that some of these predatory men, taking advantage of liberal changes to the law to protect a tiny number of people genuinely affected by binary "facilities". What a sad mess.

Surely there is a way between the cruelty of previous generations to brilliant gay people like Oscar Wilde and Alan Turing and the uncontrolled liberalism from political correctness gone mad.

What a mess! We just have to hope that people like JK Rowling are successful in reining in excess.

IME verbal boundary violations from males are often a test to see whether or not a woman or girl is comfortable and confident defending her boundaries. If the answer is "no" then the male testing the boundaries will often escalate.

Does anyone find the language used by TRA to be quite...raped?

They demand entry. They don't want barriers. Their needs must be met

Women and girls should always be alert to boundary violations by male people, to the refusal to respect a simple and clear, 'no!'

Conversely, there is no evidence that allowing trans women access to women-designated spaces, which has been the case for a number of years, puts other women at risk.

They might have more luck with this, if transwomen hadn't already posted boasting selfies of themselves in women's toilets clutching swords, or with their cocks out, or photographing young girls to aid their period fetish.

Does anyone find the language used by TRA to be quite...raped?

They demand entry. They don't want barriers. Their needs must be met.

If the language we use reflects at a deeper level our attitudes then they are not above using physical force in the way they use verbal force. Clearly not all but it is quite intimidating and make me all the more determined to fight them off.

there is no evidence that allowing trans women access to women-designated spaces, which has been the case for a number of years, puts other women at risk.'

They keep just saying this over and over, as if endlessly repeating it will somehow make it true.

Jess Bradley (remember him?!) said it a couple of years ago on the telly. It turned out he was the evidence, as he was caught flashing his penis all over the place in public!

What kind of male bodied person really insists that they can enter female single sex spaces?

What kind of man (male of any age) insists that they can enter female single sex spaces?

BillywilliamV

Transwomen are male bodied and very few have any kind of surgery. A male bodied person is generally much larger and stronger than a female and still provides a threat to women, if allowed into single sex spaces.
The vast majority of sexual assaults and violence/murders against women are carried out by male bodied persons.
What kind of male bodied person really insists that they can enter female single sex spaces?

And 1 in 50 males in prison claims to be a woman.

www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/one-in-50-prisoners-identify-as-transsexual-amid-concerns-inmates-are-attempting-to-secure-prison-perks/ar-AAE54n4

I think that a slew of letters and emails to the government, framed on that one might be a good idea.

Rewrite it, a direct rip off of their statements and fake evidence, but recentring women. Sent to Liz Truss perhaps, though others might be good too.
"We are particularly concerned of media reports of the letter sent by Human Rights Watch suggesting that...".

Just under 90 per cent of complaints regarding changing room sexual assaults, voyeurism and harassment are about incidents in unisex facilities

These are male-pattern crimes, committed overwhelmingly by men.

Geeez - this is going to lead to so much abuse

Men never lie after all! Never abuse, never sexually assault.

All of these woke idiots, have they even googled autogynephilia

despite strong evidence that this puts them at risk of violence. Conversely, there is no evidence that allowing trans women access to women-designated spaces, which has been the case for a number of years, puts other women at risk.

CITE YOUR SOURCES, YOU LYING ASSHOLES.

Your word is not evidence. Your word is not lack of evidence. Thanks to years and years and years of blatant lying from transactivists, your word means NOTHING and I hope the politicians you are writing to are aware of that. I hope everyone becomes aware of that.

The impetus to change women's toilets and changing rooms to unisex/mixed sex/'gender neutral' is to accommodate transwomen. But mixed sex spaces are unsafe for women and girls, putting women and girls in danger of assaults, sex attacks and voyeurism.

The Independent September 2018:
'UNISEX CHANGING ROOMS PUT WOMEN AT DANGER OF SEXUAL ASSAULT, DATA REVEALS'

'The vast majority of reported sexual assaults at public swimming pools in the UK take place in unisex changing rooms, new statistics reveal.'

'The data, obtained through a Freedom of Information request by the Sunday Times, suggests that unisex changing rooms are more dangerous for women and girls than single-sex facilities.'

'Just under 90 per cent of complaints regarding changing room sexual assaults, voyeurism and harassment are about incidents in unisex facilities.'

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html