Lib Dem’s at it again

As LGBT+ groups, we are aware of increasing challenges in spaces such as toilets and changing rooms for women who aren't feminine in their dress or way they present

I don't believe this ever happens. Unless the women they're referring to are male 'women'.

We are concerned that many of the measures being reported on will lead to policies and laws whereby people's suitability to access single-sex services or spaces are principally judged on their appearance rather than their behaviour or need.

People's suitability to access single-sex spaces are based on their sex. This usually correlates in some way with their appearance. Why should access to single-sex spaces be based on 'behaviour or need' if a person is not of the appropriate sex to access them?

What sort of 'behaviour or need' should be exhibited by a man which should allow him access to a female-only space?

Ireland's system of statutory declaration is the model proposed for the UK.

It might be a good idea to look at some of the pitfalls which have become apparent since this law was passed 5 years ago.

Criminal defence lawyer Robert Purcell says that the Gender Recognition Act 2015 has placed the State in an impossible position with regard to transgender prisoners.
...
When before the court last July, the prisoner was in possession of a gender recognition certificate.

It is understood that the prisoner was assigned a high level of monitoring after being convicted of ten counts of sexual assault and one count of cruelty against a child.
...
Robert Purcell is chair of the Law Society Criminal Law Committee: “The law that was enacted in 2015 did not envisage this situation, and it puts the Prison Service and the courts in a difficult position because, obviously, if somebody is self-declaring that they have to be recognised, then they have to be dealt with on that basis, even though physically, they have not have made the [physical] transformation.

“I don’t think the legislation envisaged the ability of transgender people to be able to self-declare; and it didn’t foresee the problems it would cause if a transgender, self-declared person was held in a mixed prison,” he said.

www.lawsociety.ie/gazette/top-stories/male-bodied-transgender-inmate-housed-with-women-prisoners/

Does this sound like a good model to emulate?

I'm a bit confused about the last paragraph I've quoted there. Legislation was passed to allow people to self declare their 'gender', but the legislation didn't envisage the ability of people to self declare.

"Trans people are seen as vulnerable by the conservative groups funding transphobia. We've already seen that they will come for the rest of the LGBT+ community next, and for cis women who don't conform to gender stereotypes"

lgbt.libdems.org.uk/en/article/2020/1365345/lgbt-lib-dems-sign-cross-party-lgbt-group-statement-on-trans-equality?fbclid=IwAR1iVL5hJ2eU743r8OAsGUFGRJIx43tcGd9EY3KQXS7q5xl3MXWldxrtPeY

This is scaremongering!

Oh dear. Well that argument was brought to you courtesy of the bottom of the barrel.

Fictitious laws, rampant homophobia, and er mops and pliers.

(Pliers? Seriously? 😁)

Coupled with Newsnight tonight, the sound of wheels pinging off is positively deafening.

Lesbians = men is so utterly lesbophobic.

Based on a stereotype
And that if a woman presents as 'butch' she looks like a man?

WTF.

hi libdems! My cousin is marrying her partner next year. She has long hair and a taste for Ted baker clothes. Particularly the floaty skirts.

Her partner is less frilly but doesn't look like whatever idea you have of a lesbian in your head.

I also know plenty of butch lesbians and oh! They are quite obviously female.

Homophobes.

Is this the best they can come up with?

Oh and to add polish to the turd they say men will attack women anyway, what can you do?

Fuck off.

I was a member since Charles Kennedy's days until recently. They really are a lost cause, the party for pimps, punters and people who believe in lady brain/man brain. Oh, and manufacturers of puberty blockers.
Best leave them to it and hope that it acts as fly paper to clear out these types from other political parties!

Very succinct

"The proposals take no account of the discrimination that trans women already face, and would make it impossible for those trans women early on in their transition to participate in public life, including travel and shopping."

The 'proposals' haven't been published yet. What are they talking about?

Experience where such bills have been debated and implemented shows that any woman who does not conform to someone else’s idea of what a woman should look or sound like will be subject to challenge. Such legislation, if implemented, is almost always reversed quickly because of the effects on all women. Lesbian women have many stories of how they have been discriminated against and subjected to violence in women’s facilities, simply because of their appearance

I too would love to see the evidence for this? I would like a list of countries that 'strengthened' their provisions for female single sex spaces and then rolled these back. I think this is an overreach in emotive manipulation.

The proposals take no account of the discrimination that trans women already face, and would make it impossible for those trans women early on in their transition to participate in public life, including travel and shopping.

Replace trans women with Muslim women or Jewish women.

Indeed, when I cut my hair short at 12 that definitely stopped creepy older men from staring at and commenting on my boobs. Any time they start you just point up at the hair and they go "sorry about that, lad, I hadn't noticed the hair".

"Women couldn't vote, except for the ones with short hair".

Telling butch women that nobody looking at them can tell that they're women.

It's just so, so deeply stupid. As though women have ever been able to escape oppression by having short hair or being flat chested.

Also, you know what's not very kind? Telling butch women that nobody looking at them can tell that they're women. That's not very kind at all, LibDems.

Butch women are women - and therefore in the LibDem category of person - under ‘don’t give a fuck about’

Also, you know what's not very kind? Telling butch women that nobody looking at them can tell that they're women. That's not very kind at all, LibDems.

Layla Moran can "demand" whatever she likes, doesn't mean Truss has to comply. Pink News can always write another 57 articles about it though

If they shared half a brain cell, they would be saying that toilet provision for many groups is inadequate, particularly people with disabilities, and its also often unsafe. They could campaign for more, better designed unisex toilets, and point out that these would be useful for many different groups, including parents of opposite sex children.

Yes! I've been saying this for a while. Why not campaign for Changing Places equipped loos that are genuinely nice, so there are 2 disabled loos available, both pleasant unisex provision? (I've been places that have those smaller loos for kids, too, as the adult size are just grim for them to manage.) They are brilliant for all manner of groups. Trans/NB people, families with opposite sex kids, carers with opposite sex employers, and disabled people. Huge change for the better for all concerned. But no. That doesn't seem worthwhile. Bullying women does instead. That's the hill they are choosing to die on, via lies, misinformation, and stupidity.

I think they mean 'government's planned single sex space bill' is a myth.

The legislation already exists.

mobile.twitter.com/LibDemWomen/status/1273502278906007552
Also on Twitter.

I've been so disappointed in the Lib Dems. At a time when Labour and the Tories were doing really badly, the Lib Dems had every chance of gaining the centre ground. But no, they jumped onto a bandwagon and ensured they'd never hold a position of power again.

I couldn't remember the name of that Lib Dem guy who said he was a woman and a furry something or other, and tried to google to find his name, but there were too many other Lib Dem paedophiles and sex offenders and even one who punched his 87 year old mother for me to find him.

How anyone voted for them in the last election is beyond me.

I also note they focus on loos, and ignore women's refuges, prisons, shared sleeping accommodation and rape crisis centres.

If they shared half a brain cell, they would be saying that toilet provision for many groups is inadequate, particularly people with disabilities, and its also often unsafe. They could campaign for more, better designed unisex toilets, and point out that these would be useful for many different groups, including parents of opposite sex children.

Unfortunately they lack even half a brain cell (and can't write either. A man/self, men/selves).

I was a member since Charles Kennedy's days until recently. They really are a lost cause, the party for pimps, punters and people who believe in lady brain/man brain. Oh, and manufacturers of puberty blockers.
Best leave them to it and hope that it acts as fly paper to clear out these types from other political parties!

Am I missing something?? Isn't the whole point that new laws aren't going to be implemented?

You are not missing anything but whoever wrote that is.

Liberal Democrat Women strongly reject the apparent proposals

Yeah, coz that's how parliament works- someone just vaguely says we should discuss such and such, there is a vote and boom, new laws.

That how they were able to get Brexit sorted on a Tuesday afternoon three years ago.

I know, it's insanely bigoted, isn't it?

ALL LESBIANS ARE UGLY AND LOOK LIKE MEN!

Thanks for that, Lib Dems. Your tolerance and lack of bigotry is duly noted.