1984 - George Orwell

As an aside, in the Guardian book section today, Robert Webb says 1984 was a book that changed his life: "It made me notice the importance of language and of noticing attempts to control it."

www.theguardian.com/books/2020/jun/19/robert-webb-ive-given-graham-swifts-waterland-to-at-least-two-girlfriends-and-david-mitchell

There’s a lot of Rollerball that’s to do with corporations, but I haven’t watched it in so many years but it’s got me thinking.

Alexa, Google and Twitter etc are not state-run, but they are the technology that Orwell imagined, that didn't exist when he wrote and now do.

Facebook is already developing a programme that reads minds. Artificial intelligence is being developed and improved all the time.

They are the technology that could be taken over by the state and seamlessly create the world of 1984.

Already these companies are practising censorship.

They're not state-owned here but they (or their equivalents) are in China, which is much closer to 1984 than we are in the west.

An important difference between our situation and 1984 is that in this case it's not really the state driving things, I think. Who is Big Brother? Amazon and Alexa aren't state mandated, we but them from private companies to put in our homes because we want them. Mostly we want them to do stupid things we could do just as well ourselves.

That's part of the problem, at least if it was the state you could try and stand against it.

If you could pick one pivotal quote from 1984 it would be "Do it to Julia". It is the moment that Winston loses his self and all hope along with it.

The Party understand that to truly control a population, you have to break down not just the culture but also the individual; replace language to control the way people think, place them under surveillance, keep them afraid of being denounced; and so destroy the bonds of loyalty, trust and love between friends, men and women, parents and children.

Winston is an idealist. He thinks that he can confess his crimes but keep his real beliefs a secret. He says;
"I don’t mean confessing. Confession is not betrayal. What you say or do doesn't matter; only feelings matter. If they could make me stop loving you - that would be the real betrayal.”

But O'Brien already know this, he understands that he hasn't broken Winston until he has driven him to betray Julia.
As for the reason why,
''If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever.''

Thanks for this thread. I think about 1984 very often and how prophetic it was and so much of it has come true.

The Telescreen - spying on Winston at home. (Amazon Alexa, Google/ mobile phones listening to our conversations)

Hidden cameras everywhere - (CCTV and human facial recognition technology).

Re-writing history - literally Winston's job. (photoshopping, deleting Tweets, re-naming companies, editing out stuff)

The dismissive and superior attitude to the 'proles' (aka traditional working class)

Denouncing people. Being forced to say what you don't believe. Expressing your own thoughts in a diary being a rebellious act in case someone finds it.

Even Joe Wicks and the millions watching him made me think of Winston's morning workout in front of the Telescreen.

Recently re-read Animal Farm and that never loses its relevance or impact.

I want to order 1984 but Audible still hasn't confirmed if they support women or not.

I watched the John Hurt film a year or so ago, but want to read the original and best, the novel.

"The end" .

And because of this thread, I've ordered a copy of Nineteen Eighty-Four to reread. I read it as a teen, and while I understood the horror of Thoughtcrime and so on, I don't think I really got the horror of Newspeak - its implications.

Really looking forward to reading again.

The lights episode is great, though

I sometimes put it on when Im channel-hopping. My kids usually don't pay much attention, but when that episode was on I noticed they'd both stopped what they were doing and were watching intently.

Led to an interesting chat afterwards with DS (11) about why the Cardassian wanted Picard to say there were five, and why Picard refused. Great stuff

Star trek is hugely underrated in its exploration of the dilemmas and ethical and moral difficulties of the principles of liberalism. It was of its time when these debates and discussions were at their peak.

All semi-decent Science Fiction does this. Star Trek was pretty simplistic. (I'm currently working my way through the original series with my 11 year old son. We're nearly up to the episode where The Riddler is painted black and white down the middle as a metaphor for racial intolerance - he's being endlessly hunted by someone who is painted white and black who considers him inferior. 'Black and white' vs 'white and black' - geddit? Not exactly subtle stuff.)

Though it was ground-breaking in its multi-ethnicity and it's attempts to suggest that a One World Government, communism and atheism weren't exactly EVIL - it still wallowed in mawkish interventionist Americanism.

George Takei is a treasure.

There was an episode of Star Trek TNG strongly influenced by 1984. The one where Picard is tortured to make him say there are 5 lights but there are only 4.

Star trek is hugely underrated in its exploration of the dilemmas and ethical and moral difficulties of the principles of liberalism. It was of its time when these debates and discussions were at their peak.

The new amazon prime series Picard is another look at the same thing but its placed inside a world which reflects the growing shadow of authoritarianism.

If you understand the principles of liberalism (and I don't mean Liberal identity) and how it's about balancing the needs of different groups and promoting human rights, the entire star trek franchise is fascinating from a political view point. Its lacking the refinement of 1984 but its still echoing it.

It was not just another scifi programme with dodgy aliens and phasers.

Sadly George Takei is merely another Daniel Radcliffe or Emma Watson.

TheSandman I think it's always been called "1984" in the United States. I was aware that it's meant to be "Nineteen Eighty-Four" in this country (though I'd forgotten the "A Novel" subtitle) but I wrote "1984" anyway because I was feeling lazy.
And the first of the Harry Potter books likewise has a different title in the US!

I remember Adrian Mole (who saw himself as an intellectual) being heartbroken as he'd though Animal Farm was just a book about pigs.

I miss Sue Townsend.

Thanks for this thread. I always thought 1984 so depressing and scary. I studied it for O level in .....1984. The essay questions were all about the extent to which Orwell's "story" had come true. Little did any of us know what the future held!

I prefer Down and Out in Paris and London, etc.

I think it's endlessly ironic that the very title of the book has been rewritten.

It was originally 'Nineteen Eighty-Four: a Novel by George Orwell'. These days it's '1984 by George Orwell'. (In a few years I suspect the marketing guys will give it a workover and it's be 'Disney's Harry Potter and the Ministry of Fear by Allan Dean Foster'.)

My teens are currently studying 1984 with some friends, they are all loving it!

You can read all of orwell's stuff for free here:
www.george-orwell.org/

My primary school teacher read 'Animal Farm' to us in our final year. Without the political meaning it is still a very powerful demonstration of human behaviour & power dynamics.
I'm very grateful to her for that exposure & opportunity to consider its meanings without the pressures of completing assignments, essays or passing exams.

Ninkanink

Unfortunately I can't claim credit for it...maybe someone here knows who made it?

I’ve just downloaded 1984 on my sparkly new Scribd account (suck it Audible). I haven’t read or for years! DS loves Orwell.

The explosion of the internet paired with the smart phone has put humanity in a position it has never been in before. There are no longer any barriers to communication. Things that for all of humanity until the past decade that served as natural barriers, and natural tempers, Time, distance, and physical barriers no longer exist.

Slight sidestep from the topic, but Trump reinventing the truth about what he said about COVID, with advisers forced to toe the line, makes me think of Squealer up a ladder in the night, rewriting the commandments on the barn wall.

I feel like this goes on all the time now. The rules are changed, the facts are changed, and it's like we aren't supposed to point it out.