Be an ally to lesbians: stop using LGBTQ+

Id suggest not attempting to put words in my mouth sapphos

I keep my trap shut a lot on here as i read and absorb more than you’d think

And I intend keeping it that way

From my very limited experience of gay bars (which is this one...and relies on my children talking about it) they are very welcoming to everyone however they present and whatever their sexuality

I also believe that for SOME people sexuality is fluid...I’m fairly positive that dd is straight, and she’s confirmed it. But it might Be that she just hasn’t met the right woman yet.

There is an obsession on this thread, from a few, as to why same sex attracted can't organise themselves?

I'm same sex attracted and manage to organise myself and my fellow lesbians perfectly well without the help of straight women telling me how to do it properly.

That's correct DuDuDu. Well said.

Another point is, by trying to exclude people who are trans there is actually a fair amount of shooting selves in feet that is going on.

Dropping the T Is not outright excluding ‘people who are trans’ though - it’s excluding male people who are attracted to female people (heterosexual men) and vice versa.

Female people attracted to female people are included under the L or the B, unless they choose to self exclude by prioritising their cross sex identity OVER their same sex attracted orientation (ie, identifying as a heterosexual man)

When these young trans people are welcomed into broader groups that include lesbians they can talk in more detail about their feelings and worries and listen to how older people have navigated perhaps similar difficulties without having surgery.

And

It's useful for people to know that if they change their mind about transitioning that there is someone they can talk to.

These are great points. I hadn't thought about this before but I recently talked a female, non binary acquaintance out of having top surgery.
If lesbians bugger off and do their own thing they're not around to be positive role models.

I very much doubt many on this board have ever had any sort of contact with trans people either

You must be very new, Billi? Otherwise you would know this board is populated by lots of women who have children who identify as trans, and lots of women who have been married to middle aged male transitioners.

Stick around, you might learn something!.

What jacki said 👏🏻

*apols for typos, another person with poor eyesight

Jacki 💪💪💪

This is not anti T thread. As usual a minority are deliberately trying to derail it. So terrified it seems of self organising.

I was campaigning for trans rights thirty years ago. When it was scary to be on Pride. When Stephen Whittle and co were keeping their heads well down. So fuck right off with that disingenuous crap. I'm not the one living in a bubble here.

I'd feel a lot happier these days, if the so called modern day T were dissociating themselves from the MAPs and so on. I don't see it. I hope that they do.

There is an obsession on this thread, from a few, as to why same sex attracted can't organise themselves?

It reminds me of the older white men I used to see in the trade unions shouting "it will never work" when we argued to set up BAME sections, for instance.

The reason we were arguing for BAME sections was because the white male dominated trades unions weren't listening, nor organising in support of their BAME members. The people, usually, with the worst terms and conditions.

They had to self organise to identify the issues, and get their voices heard. the rest became their allies to improve workplace conditions.That's how you get positive change. Positive change benefits everyone.

We've left a group of young women and young men behind. They need support. They are asking women as allies to support them as LGB.
I'm ok with that.

It does not mean that I/we can't support others elsewhere. How ridiculous to suggest that.

The anecodotel evidence of family, friends and lesbians on the thread here, says there is no/very little funded dedicated support for young lesbians in 2020. I agree, that's my experience too.

That's an absolute scandal.

My niece is a transman and everyone else around her has unequivocally affirmed her decision to transition.

She knows that I disagree and also that I love her. She knows that I have her back, and that if she changed her mind about transitioning I'd do everything I could to help her.

It's useful for people to know that if they change their mind about transitioning that there is someone they can talk to.

I'd welcome any transman into a woman's space because they are female. Transwomen, no. Because they're not.

I assume if the trans person is a girl Or a woman worried that they must be a man because they fancy girls/women then they will be welcome

The idea that boys/men should be welcome into groups for lesbians to discuss strap ons and orgasms is completely creepy

lesbianalliance.org.uk/about/

Again, a different view.

What a lot of bs going on here! Women, you need advice from men at all times!

purplecrowbar

That would be ideal wouldn't it.

Female only groups AND lesbian only groups. The ability to meet up without having to explain oneself.

Another point is, by trying to exclude people who are trans there is actually a fair amount of shooting selves in feet that is going on.

Correct me if I'm wrong but there is a lot of concern that trans teens are electing to undergo surgeries that they might later come to regret. Who do you think it is that can give them a broader context to their experiences? Who can empathise with their feelings and gently nudge them to consider other alternatives?

When these young trans people are welcomed into broader groups that include lesbians they can talk in more detail about their feelings and worries and listen to how older people have navigated perhaps similar difficulties without having surgery.

I don't know if gender reassignment clinics go into details of strap ons, best type to achieve orgasm by wearer etc, the benefits of being able to swap in hundreds of different types as partners will all have different preferences and different desires at different times. We are the ones that can have those real conversations and perhaps be instrumental in a trans person's journey and consideration of surgery.

By polarising the identities, by excluding the T, or by making trans people feel unwelcome in spaces you are making those conversations less likely to happen.

RufustheRowlingReindeer great example with your DD - exactly how things should be.

Assume you would have been equally supportive of your DD meeting a new trans woman friend in the gay bar? I think gay bars should be safe spaces for everyone from the LGBT+ community.

If I am wrong, and you think LGB should be separated from T then are you suggesting trans women should give up their safe spaces and make way for straight women such as your DD to go to gay bars and meet lovely, new friends? Because that's a bit nuts.

jacki

👏🏻

Agreed Jacki.

Mother of a lesbian teenager here.

I'd like her to have access to women only AND lesbian only spaces when she's older.

What Jacki said. Fantastic post.

And why make assumptions that women posting here must be Straight. This is FWR so it will attract a lot of lesbian and Bi women because, you know, women-loving-women. Women supporting women. Women prioritizing women.

I find it interesting that so many straight women on this thread are invested in breaking the LGB away from the T when it doesn't affect straight women at all

Straight women do not live in a vacuum of being straight.

They have family, friends, children, colleagues, who are same sex attracted. They talk, they help, they support, they learn what the issues are.

Of course straight women should be allies. Why should they not be?

For others to be able to listen to and support lesbians, lesbians have to be able to come together, and identify the issues that affect them, in the first place.

Other women who are concerned, listen and support, as allies.

There are always those with their own agenda who will find any reason possible to stop lesbians self organising. Any women for that matter. Why? Because they are scared of women organising,

This is FWR, it's got a strong history of helping women organise for a variety of reasons.
You don't have to be disabled to support disability rights.
You don't have to be black to feel that Black Lives Matter.
You don't have to be a mother to think there should be free school meals for those who can't afford it.

FWR is not about finding reasons why a group of women should not come together, and why other women should not support them.

Dd went to the local gay bar with her brother (shes straight but not a hypocrite by sapphos rules)

She came home full of her new female friend she had made who was really lovely and had bought her a drink and chatted to her all night

The fact that she was in a gay bar had gone right over her head

EmpressLangClegSpartacus

Well, it’s not as if Stonewall are a friend to lesbians nowadays. I appreciate the support from straight allies

It's pretty much the whole premise of shedbuilders thread.

I appreciate the support from straight allies.
Me too!

Sapphos - my bar hopping days are long gone! So I wouldn't know to what extent they are overrun by straight people these days.

I do remember gay male friends getting pissed off when Canal Street in Manchester ended up full of hen parties...

You said 'gay bar' - what about lesbian bars? Are they still a thing?

Used to be, years ago, when I was living in the U.K.

But it is nice to see bi women getting a break! They are the ones that have come in for these divisive tactics in the past!