Be an ally to lesbians: stop using LGBTQ+

NotBadConsidering why on earth would I make it up? This was the booking appointment of my 2nd pregnancy so I knew I was rhesus negative.

There is no option on the booking form to state the baby is donor conceived. Even when I said it was an IVF baby my midwife made the assumption that my male partner produced the sperm which is why she asked for my partner's blood type.

Yes they may have done a blood test anyway (I would hope so!) but it still highlights how maternity care does not consider lesbian partnerships.

The only Lesbians that is still true of are transgenders who identify as Lesbians. Most Lesbians now view it as a warning sign.

Source? Evidence?

Well, I’m a lesbian and I do. For me rainbow flag = Stonewall = hostility to same-sex attraction - something Stonewall can’t even bring themselves to talk about nowadays.

Sapphos you are talking absolute shite to try and make a fake point. You say:

Not to the one where I was asked about my partner's blood group.

Midwives and obstetricians don’t ask this. The vast majority of people don’t know their blood group. Only women who have been pregnant and those who have given blood - if they remember. And because people either don’t know or can’t be relied upon to remember correctly, the blood group of a partner whether male or female, is not asked because it won’t be used to alter management. If a pregnant woman is Rh negative and the partner thinks they are also negative, do you think the hospital staff won’t bother doing a cord Coombs based on that?

As a result, asking a partner’s blood group is not something that is done because it’s utterly pointless and unreliable and I think you’ve made the whole thing up to make a point.

I just wanted to say in my previous post I mean 'some lesbians' not some lesbian, what I wrote sounded so rude and I'm sorry! It was a typo

Well, I can see that. But at the ante natal clinic, from a pre natal health perspective, the pregnant woman is the mother.

Thisismytimetoshine I agree 'identifying' as a mother is a strange choice of words but a person doesn't have to give to be a mother. My wife for example, is the other mother to our D.C. despite not giving birth. Our D.C. certainly consider her to be their mother.

If a healthcare worker has been on some diversity training and understands that LGBT parents come in many different forms that's surely a good thing.

Yes but the HCP who might be accused of transphobia for using words like 'father' could be if they identify as a mother. I suppose that's why we use 'partner' but as we've seen, that's posed and issue for some lesbian. Kind of proves the point really. But yes sorry to derail.

The irony that this thread now seems to be about how women are being treated during birth, especially lesbian women, is not lost on me.

Trans women are never going to have that problem.

Does your partner accompany you to antenatal visits, Sapphos?

Not to the one where I was asked about my partner's blood group.

I have some points about maternity care. To the question - partner's blood type? you could say 'father's blood type is unknown/A+' etc or 'my partner is not the father, the father's blood type is....' and you wouldn't have to reveal your sexuality if you didn't want to. Straight women can be in situations in which they would answer similarly. The other way to put it is 'father's blood type?' as a question but this can cause confusion regarding whether the question is about the baby's father or the woman's father. There is also a debate about whether using 'father' is exclusionary but as PP said, it's incredibly important we know the facts and this is kind of what we need to ask. There is definitely a debate to be had regarding more inclusive language but the language already used is not arbitrary and factual enquiries aren't always assumptions. Matters around conception/family set up are an important part of maternity care and I do feel you would be impacting on your own care if you couldn't discuss this. I'm glad a lanyard would help you personally but I agree with how it could also be a deterrent for other lesbians and straight women, especially in a healthcare setting where sex based rights are relevant.
Also regarding 'last unprotected sex' question, I disagree this should be 'any chance you could be pregnant' although both are helpful. I work in women's health, the amount of times a woman has denied there is any chance she could be pregnant, but then you ask about unprotected sex and oh yes they did have some and it was over their fertile period but he pulled out/said he couldn't have babies/I showered up there afterward etc is not small, and it's vital information especially if you are inserting IUDs etc. If you are a lesbian there should be space for you to say 'not applicable' or 'IUI on such a such date'. These aren't prejudiced questions designed to cater only to straight people or ones forcing you to reveal your sexuality if you aren't comfortable, they're just trying to establish facts.
Like I said I work in women's health. I would listen to all feedback on how to improve our services and use more inclusive language. On balance I wouldn't wear a rainbow lanyard and would hope my rapport with patients allowed them to reveal pertinent information that may be difficult for them to share, as most HCPs rely on. I hope there can be a visual symbol to make this easier for some groups such as lesbians to let them know I support them and care about their specific needs, but question whether the rainbow symbol is the right way to go.

This is a very controversial argument.

As someone who is bi AND has identity issues, I do agree sexuality and identity are two different things and could and probably should be separated.

I am all for identity being recognised in it's own right because identity issues effect people more than even those of us suffering with them realise. Some people like me live with them happily understanding them until an abusive predatory person uses it against you. And suddenly all that "harmless" coping stuff had actually made you susceptible to horrific abuse. I believe most trans people are suffering with identity issues similar to my own. Those that arent having identity issues aren't out shouting or demanding women's rights because they're comfortable with themselves. Of course some people with identity issues are just LGB aswell

But I do agree with you and I have no idea why the two things have become permanently conflated.

Seems as though the TRAs, having found considerable resistance from feminists and LGB people, have now glommed on to the black lives matter campaign. Be interesting to see how that pans out. (sorry for the derail)

The founder of the Black Trans Lives Matter campaign is self-confessed rapist Cherno Biko. www.womenarehuman.com/male-trans-rights-activist-who-identifies-as-woman-rapes-woman-cherno-biko/

The rainbow flag symbolises tolerance, acceptance and safety to many lesbians.

The only Lesbians that is still true of are transgenders who identify as Lesbians. Most Lesbians now view it as a warning sign.

The spike in suicides post transition bears witness to the fact that affirmation is not the compassionate response to someone suffering delusions or dysphoria. We do not affirm anorexics in their belief they are fat, nor do we agree that people who suffer xenomelia should have the amputations they desire. It is unacceptable and not in any way compassionate to affirm a male's delusion that his penis is a "lady dick".
There is nothing compassionate about reinforcing a harmful belief.

JiggeryWokery

Seems as though the TRAs, having found considerable resistance from feminists and LGB people, have now glommed on to the black lives matter campaign. Be interesting to see how that pans out.

Indeed.

You are assuming that every lesbian has the confidence to reveal their sexuality to a complete stranger, and if they don't then 'tsk' they have no right to have a baby.

I don't understand why you'd have to reveal your sexuality if you didn't want to?

Seems as though the TRAs, having found considerable resistance from feminists and LGB people, have now glommed on to the black lives matter campaign. Be interesting to see how that pans out. (sorry for the derail)

Does your partner accompany you to antenatal visits, Sapphos? I'm genuinely confused as to how you rock up as a lesbian couple and imagine the hcp will think your partner is the baby's father?

Oh, get real, SapphosRock. Nine of the ten people I know who have conceived by donor are not lesbians, and none of them was asked whether they were doing it because their partner wasn't male. And if your partner was with you, it would be obvious that a woman with a female partner was likely to be a lesbian, and if she wasn't, it would not have been something you needed to worry about.

The tsk was because I am amazed you are a lesbian old enough to have a baby and still unable to say something so simple to a HCP.

And don't give me "you don't know what it's like to be verbally or physically attacked for your sexuality"! I am a woman: that is my sexuality. You think somehow that means I haven't been raped, groped, jeered at, threatened, told I am not a proper woman because I wear jeans, called "sir" because I have a deep voice, told not to go into the ladies' lavatory in a pub? Pah.

Well, personally I find it hugely offensive to be termed 'Queer' and anyone doing so by sticking it in an acronym to describe me will get short shrift.

So if the Q want to campaign for something, I'm more than happy for them to do it separately, especially as so many using the description haven't ever had it used as a slur, so they aren't 'reclaiming' anything.

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime

You are assuming that every lesbian has the confidence to reveal their sexuality to a complete stranger, and if they don't then 'tsk' they have no right to have a baby.

This is an excellent example of straight privilege.

@PurpleCrowbarWhereIsLangCleg are you a lesbian? You don't say. If not then of course you wouldn't understand how a rainbow symbol would be reassuring. You haven't had to live in a world where you could be verbally or physically attacked for your sexuality. You haven't had the raised eyebrows, the stares the sniggers. The rainbow flag symbolises tolerance, acceptance and safety to many lesbians.

Having heard much of T, and the debate surrounding T, on this thread.

I'd like to ask more of the Q. What/Who is Q?

OP/ LGB supporters. Why do you believe Q should be organising/campaiging outside of LGB?