Be an ally to lesbians: stop using LGBTQ+

To be fair I’m so befuddled by the whole ’ally’ thing that I don’t think I’ll bother

Which will be a relief to all I'm sure

Well that's quite a jump, but hey

You’d know

One doesn’t have to agree with, personally affirm or otherwise completely align with every single individual’s opinion(s) in order be an ally, and that applies to whatever group(s) one is allying with. Overarching principles matter a lot, and if your opinion is damaging to the overall cause then I will challenge you on it.

If people want complete affirmation without any opposition where it is deemed appropriate then again, I will stress that FWR likely isn’t going to be your kind of place.

In the meantime we will continue arguing vehemently for women’s rights and protections in law, including those of lesbians and bisexual women.

Hello lesbian! We are your allies, and we will relentlessly hound you about your medical experiences and make you out to be liars!

I know right? I suspect the agenda isn't about being a lesbian ally at all 🧐

And of course their are gay boys/young men who get absolutely get caught in the cross fire too. Because sexuality and gender and sex are all different things. And giving children the opportunity to make permanent changes to their bodies, which aren't really reversible, without the appropriate safe guards, seems both dangerous and irresponsible.

There are times I've worn men's clothing and rejected my femininity, and times I have fancied/kissed/had sex etc, with both sexes. There have been times I wished I could cut off my big boobs and escape Male attention, other times I've loved being a woman more than anything. Most of my life's issues have come from being a woman. Endometriosis, pregnancy complications, breastfeeding successes and failures, mastitis, domestic violence, sexual assault, rape, etc. If you'd given me a choice as an angry traumatised teenager I may have chosen hormones or even surgery. Anything to make me less of a target to Male violence. But i am so glad I didn't. I get to be a mother, I don't have to take daily hormones, I'm just glad I grew up in different times.

Straight women have babies by donor too, and have babies who aren't their partners (surrogacy, infidelity, by rape, etc.) So midwives should be aware that there are other reasons for the partners blood type to be irrelevant to the baby. And that should be reflected in forms. However, I can see why in a busy job assumptions are sometimes made. Not saying it's right, just that I can see how it happens.

LGB alliance look really good. I feel like ideally there should be a group for LGB and a different group for T+ One based on sexuality and sex, the other based on gender. Historically there have not been issues and it looked like the issues facing all the communities of LGBT faced the same issues, but the issues have changed.

The minefield of hormones and surgical options, and the reinforcing of gender stereotypes, the erosion of woman and the bullying. The slurs on women. I don't know that much, but a lot of it seems intrinsically anti-homosexual. If you are a girl who likes girls then maybe you should have been born a boy? If you are still sure you are a girl who likes girls then you must accept TWAW and have sex with a penis anyway? Ffs. Just seems like classic Male on female violence. Nobody is allowed to just live without dick. Either you have to have your own or have sex with one.

Can we just stop making this all about the manhood? What about womanhood?

Thank you very much! As I’d predicted I managed to get some of the details wrong but it still stands as a very good example of the sorts of problems this throw up for women, and by extension for lesbians.

@Ninkanink
The thread you were looking for is www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3934160-Well-Ive-just-come-out-as-GC-on-Facebook
With the roller derby example you mentioned posted at Wed 10-Jun-20 09:44:00 on the thread.

It's not exactly winning the PR war to make claims about being allies to lesbians and then attacking them is it.

If in order to be an ally of lesbians it is necessary to be unfailingly and completely believing of anything claimed by every lesbian at all times, then I doubt that many people are.

@Gormless I know right?1 Hello lesbian! We are your allies, and we will relentlessly hound you about your medical experiences and make you out to be liars!

Is the tone of this thread what ‘being an ally to lesbians’ is going to feel like? Because if so you can keep it. Some of us have one view on this; others another. But don’t dare claim to speak for any of us or tell us what to do. Because the minute you do that you cease to be any kind of ally at all.

I am a lesbian and have quite an extensive circle of lesbian friends ranging in ages from late 20s to mid 50s - I don't know any that reject the other identities being added on to LGB, and certainly none that want to do away with the rainbow. The different IDs are the best bit about Pride, we all cheer each other on.

I’m saying it’s incompetent. It is incompetent to ask the question and make medical assumptions out of it. Because of that, midwives are taught that the blood group of a partner - donor or lesbian - is irrelevant and as such, there’s no need to ask it. And they don’t. Never seen it in my entire medical career, never seen it recorded anywhere, never happened with my own children, you’re the first person to ever say it’s happened, not once, but twice.

It’s medically incompetent to ask the question in the first place, or it didn’t happen. The assumptions about your relationship are irrelevant.

But her wearing a rainbow lanyard would have made it all ok. Or did; it's hard to be sure from your posts.

o.....kay.....

I never said incompetent. She made assumptions. As did my previous midwife. As have countless other doctors, nurses and midwives over the years.

Cross post.

So did you have the same incompetent midwife both times or are you just unlucky enough to come across incompetent midwives both times?

If you say so Sapphos.

You telling the midwife your donor was A positive should have had no bearing on whether or not you got anti-D injections or not. You may have not remembered the blood group correctly. You may have been given false information by the donor or donor company. It is never relied on, and you would have been tested and your baby tested regardless. It was a completely redundant question. I mean it’s even completely redundant to ask the pregnant woman her blood group because that’s going to be tested regardless because people are hopeless at remembering accurately and testing still needs to happen for numerous haematological reasons.

You’re either “misremembering” or you had the world’s most incompetent midwife. Luckily she was wearing a rainbow lanyard so you could feel comfortable pointing out how incompetent she was eh?

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime I should have said 'my pregnancies' as this came up with my first pregnancy too. When giving birth to DD I was being examined and the midwife asked if my 'mum' (wife) wanted to wait outside. This stuff happens all the time in healthcare, as I'm sure any lesbian on the thread will confirm.

So it was in fact just the one conversation that was perfectly straightforward, then.

What you asserted was "Throughout my pregnancy I had many confusing conversations with midwives about my partner's blood type (obviously not relevant)."

I'm pretty sure my maternity booking form had a marital status box too. There was the option to tick civil partnership but as my wife and I are married I ticked married.

The conversation with the midwife went like this:

Midwife: do you know your blood type?

Me: Yes, I'm A negative

Midwife: Ah so you might need anti d injections. Do you know your partner's blood type?

Me: (thinking that's a strange question) yes. Also A negative

Midwife: oh right, if that's the case the baby will be rhesus negative so you won't need to have anti d

Me: (realising the misunderstanding) my partner isn't the baby's father, I'm in a same sex marriage so the baby was conceived using a sperm donor who is A positive.

Midwife: okay so you will definitely need the anti d.

Obviously I have no idea what would have happened if I hadn't cleared up the misunderstanding, but the rainbow lanyard the midwife was wearing made me feel more at ease.

The sire's, if known, will give the likelihood of a problem (or not). The partner (whether wife, bidey-in or whatever else) has been known for the past many, many centuries to be possibly the sire of the baby but quite possibly not, so I really don't see his/her/their blood-group being something a medic would ask for -- if the partner is even known to the potential mother. What would be the point?

(I only knew my blood-group because it is unusual, and whenever I gave it in a hospital I was politely told that it would have to be tested again anyway. Hell, it was on my medical notes, which back in those days were paper not computer, and they still tested it again every time.)

Well, yes. The point is; the mother's is relevant and the partner's is not.

The mother is asked about blood types. If you're RhD negative and your baby turns out to be positive you need an anti D shot after the birth, so it's recorded on your notes.

Most people are clueless as to their blood type though, so it’s part of the booking-in set of pregnancy blood tests.

I’ve had two children (and two blood transfusions) and have no idea what my blood type is (and my youngest child has had a years worth of fortnightly blood tests and about ten lots of cryoprecipitate and I have no idea what her blood type is either!)