Be an ally to lesbians: stop using LGBTQ+

And where on earth has this specious argument come about 'lady dick' or lesbians being expected to have sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with come from?

Males.

Nobody should be attacked or feel threatened for who they are. And voices should be heard; you’re right.

And in case anyone missed it , the LGB Alliance gives a very good space for lesbians, gay men and bi-sexual women and men to discuss this.

To all the lurkers.

Back to shedbuilders original OP.

There is a growing number of lesbians, and also gay men who are wanting to protect their hard won rights and not be attacked (either verbally, in written communications, or in person) or denigrated for their homosexuality.

Homosexuality is their commonality, and that is why they are asking for their community to be referred to as LGB (bi-sexual people may more often than not choose gay/same sex relationships over mixed-sex ones and that it is why it is LGB)

It is fair that their voices be heard and respected.

Perhaps the Diva readers, like many lesbians, don’t want to compromise an already extremely marginalised minority?

Yeah. That's not the group I sent to Shed.

Maybe it's like a unicorn, you have to believe it exists in order to see it...

How strange! Opened perfectly well for me & here’s a screenshot

I don't know what group Fanta and Shedbuilder are looking at but I can't open that link and it's not to the group I mentioned.

Still, at least the new terracotta lamp the British Museum have got for their "diversity display" has a pair of lesbians on it, and they are not saying that the couple are trans. www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/G_2005-0921-1

Or at least, they didn't seem to be this morning. That may all be changed if enough woke people notice and complain, of course. But the exhibit isn't open at the moment so perhaps it will stay as it always has been, lesbian.

Oh yes I understood what you were saying.

Everyone is being told to swallow or else. Lesbians are right down the very bottom of that chain, given the overwhelming misogyny that drives this ideology.

It's not exactly winning the PR war to make claims about being allies to lesbians and then attacking them is it.

"Them"? I think one person may not be entirely reliable, or possibly not entirely accurate, and I am therefore attacking an entire class of individuals of whom they may be a single example?

That is the equivalent of saying that because there is a blonde person I dislike, I therefore dislike all blondes. I'm sure that there must be some sort of named philosophical fallacy in that.... It is certainly a faulty generalisation.

I guarantee they’re not being threatened with violence from those with vaginas, or being told to choke on a cunt, for refusing

Certainly wouldn’t argue otherwise

But i do struggle with people who believe that pressure on some lesbians is made up when i know its also happening to gay men i know

I took a look at the Diva page where Sappho tells us the penis is never a problem, and indeed welcomed..

This is the first post you see.

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156793434120671&id=14494605670

It’s only ever the men who weaponise their genitals in that vile and violent way. Always a dead giveaway, no matter how much they claim to be women.

Yes of course it depends on the circles one moves in, just like opinions on most other things. Like tends to attract like, broadly speaking. But in this area in particular I would venture that many young women especially would probably be afraid to openly express their true opinion on this. Or they may not yet have developed the confidence to assert their boundaries in the face of accusations of bigotry and ‘phobia’. Or perhaps they haven’t yet acquired the experience and the wisdom to see with clarity.

Ultimately, it doesn’t need a consensus. We as a group here are advocating on behalf of those who do mind, who are frightened, who are being bullied and whose boundaries are not being respected. Those who are of a different opinion can choose to associate or not associate with whomever they want. That choice isn’t available to those who don’t like the current status quo.

@Shedbuilder I’ve definitely heard you and others.

Absolutely lillian

Gay men are also being called transphobic if they don’t want PIV sex

And where on earth has this specious argument come about 'lady dick' or lesbians being expected to have sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with come from? Some may be quite into transwomen, I don't happen to know any dating a transwoman personally but I'm sure there are some. I think you'll find, a bit like the heterosexual population, we are dating individuals in populations we are attracted to, we are not dating the entire classification at any one time and we feel under no pressure to!

Perhaps you should look up ‘the cotton ceiling’ and you’ll see it was a phrase coined by a male bodied person who identifies as trans who created it. Maybe you should also have a look at Twitter and you’ll see how much abuse is being directed at lesbians who won’t sleep with those who identify as trans.

I don't know if our lovely 'allies' are aware of this - but our complex communities often consist of diversely IDing people - iindeed many transmen in our communities previously identified as lesbians.

We don't push out our friends because they have come to a new understanding of themselves, we support them through their changing lives and encourage them to explore options that are right for them. (Including conversations about how bottom surgery or phalloplasty might not be best the option for them, as we all know as older experienced lesbians that we can swap in a hundred different dildos of varying shapes, sizes and textures to keep our partners happy at any given time, but they will be stuck with the one penis they get!) But whatever they choose they are still our friends, or at least that's how it works with people I know.

And where on earth has this specious argument come about 'lady dick' or lesbians being expected to have sex with anyone they don't want to have sex with come from? Some may be quite into transwomen, I don't happen to know any dating a transwoman personally but I'm sure there are some. I think you'll find, a bit like the heterosexual population, we are dating individuals in populations we are attracted to, we are not dating the entire classification at any one time and we feel under no pressure to!

I advocate a great deal on behalf of women and girls of every sexual persuasion (and however they choose to ‘identify’) and much of that advocacy absolutely is directed at ensuring their visibility and acknowledgement within healthcare, and safeguarding their interests. Your individual circumstances are not the focus of this discussion, nor the only relevant aspect of the wider problem being addressed here.

It must be down to the circles we mix in. My assistant is bi and her sister is lesbian. They both talk about feeling bullied, because they won’t sleep with a male bodied trans person. My assistant feels bullied because she’s bi, so some of her friends can’t understand her reluctance. It has been very difficult for both of them, as they don’t want to loose friends, but apparently just saying they don’t find that particular member of their circle sexually attractive isn’t enough of a reason.

Ninkanink Supporting lesbians being visible and acknowledged in healthcare is a bare minimum requirement of an ally. Many on this thread can't even bring themselves to do that.