Vice by Hannah Ewans, "Inside the Great British TERF War' (incl Hampstead Women's Pool, Manfriday, Mumsnet, The Guardian & a lot of false allegations)

I am guessing it is because men kill other men more often than they kill women, so the rule of the father is more dangerous for men than women. DARVO!

I’m not BAME but I am working class and attended uni as a single mum, living in a council flat on one of London’s most notorious estates.

Let’s just say that Goldsmiths was not a good fit for me 😂 and I graduated 15 years ago, can’t even begin to imagine how much worse it would be now.

My son is currently at uni himself and he reports similar encounters with the pronoun police. He’s even swapped courses to try and distance himself from the worst of it!

Where, commentators asked, does that leave trans women, to whom the patriarchy proves an even greater risk?

I don't get this. Where is the proof that patriarchy is more violent, more damaging, more oppressive, more of a risk, to males in dresses than to females in any attire?

With a word like "proves" I expect proof. Studies, stats, actual hard data, properly collected and analysed by people who aren't unthinking male supremacists with no understanding of bias.

Where's the data showing that an ordinary straight white male in makeup is more likely to be sexually assaulted than a female of any description?

I adorable the Man Friday women so much I could squeee.

I’m having a little go at my own research too.

Does anyone know if ‘non-binary critic, SO Mayer’

In their contribution to the 2019 Ladies’ Pond essay collection At The Ponds, non-binary critic SO Mayer points out that the Heath’s Kenwood House was home in the 1800s to Dido Elizabeth Belle, the daughter of an African slave and a British naval officer. A decade after she arrived at Kenwood House, a marsh was drained to add to the reservoirs. Fifteen years later, just before Belle left the house to marry an abolitionist, Thousand Pound Pond (now known as Concert Pond) was dug.

“The fetishisation of landscaped parks created by the aristocracy and maintained by Britain’s colonial expropriated wealth, without any consideration of the history of its making,” Mayer writes on email, “colludes in creating implicit exclusions.” In other words: even the bucolic spaces that anti-trans feminists wish to protect have class and segregation baked into their DNA.

www.bfi.org.uk/people/so-mayer

And Sophie Mayer, PhD from the English department at the University of Toronto

www.sophiemayer.net/content/academic

Are the same person? Because they certainly have remarkably similar names and CVs.

Only, I doubt Sophie Mayer knows fuck all about how working class Londoners of white or BAME backgrounds use London’s parks.

What a load of old PoMo wankery.

The thing about gaslighting is that they don't stop doing it just because it isn't working any more.
That is true of the other abusive male tactics as well, DARVO, forced teaming, and psychological projection.

the debate over human rights for transgender people ...

Sorry R0wantrees, the lies started in the very first sentence so I didn't bother to read the OP further.

Thanks for posting it, though. The comments are always worth reading. I started off feeling sick with anger, and ended up laughing and feeling good about women's wit and resilience.

I grew up on a council estate and am BAME. I am a Millennial.
Funnily enough, details 1 and 2 meant I never knew anything about transgender people until I went to uni and got lambasted for not being given the white middle-class memo about pronouns etc. I reached peak trans not so long ago so I'm not sure how common that is.
Transgender politics are another way of discriminating against race and class, as well as being fundamentally misogynistic.
Vice can fuck right off in a nice little circle of mutual self-affirmation. If they contact anyone here to write articles about you, watch out for them, they wrote a really shitty one about me last year after pretending they were taking a decent angle. They use deception to get you to talk to them or to get permission to use images etc of you.

This recording posted by R0wan of the 2015 event is incredible ... Freddie McConnell speculating three minutes in whether it should be "legally mandated" that cis people meet trans people to eradicate their prejudices. What's with the carceral approach all the time??

www.youtube.com/watch?v=WspvIQEEt4o

[quote R0wantrees]When the Men’s Pond protest happened, the small group was led by one woman – and founding member of the #ManFriday movement – Hannah Clarke. In the Daily Mail coverage of the small event, Clarke was quoted at length as being “articulate, measured in her language, and solidly middle-class”

Jane Fae has long expressed resentment towards the women behind #ManFriday.

September 2018 Fae organised a TRA conference, 'We're Still Here'. Dawn Butler MP (former shadow Minister for Women & Equalities) gave the keynote speech.

TheHarpySings reported from the event:
(extract)

"4) Equalities Act

So… there was a kind of informal meeting during lunchtime about The Equalities Act which was being run by everyone’s favourite advocate for extreme porn, Jane Fae. Edward Lord turned up, straight from a meeting with the City of London Corp. PlEASE NOTE THAT FAE AND LORD DID NOT WANT THIS SECTION TWEETED.

Edward Lord. He was dressed like Tweedledum. Or, if I’m feeling generous, a Mario Brother that doesn’t get invited to Xmas dinner anymore.

Mr Lord was very bumfaced about the Andrew Gilligan article about him in July and said that opposition to the GRA consultation just wanted to “cause mayhem.” He directly mentioned the Man Friday Hampstead Pond stuff.

Apparently “there have been no incidents of men turning up to the women’s pond but Man Friday turned up to the men’s pond and demanded admission- by force if necessary.”

As of 8/9/18, 15.5k people had completed the attitudes survey.

Lord said that TW were entitled to the protected characteristic “Woman”- he said the Gov dept on woman and equalities has confirmed this. Apparently the brave and stunning vexatious litigator Giuliana Kendall has something to do with this being confirmed.

Edward Lord is worried about the 125 elected members of the London assembly or whatever the fuck Londoners have governing the city. Not all of them are onside. He is worried that all of this is going to be discussed at committee and that “terfs are going to protest”.

Jane Fae said that JF has been in contact w/ YHA and GirlGuiding. Fae is of the opinion that the law doesn’t distinguish gender and sex. They are not defined and parliament will not define them.

The TRAs are fully prepared to take local councils to court of they try to invoke EA2010 for reasons of sex. JF was nodding at Giuliana when JF said this.

James Morton (Scottish Trans Alliance) said to be “strategic about test cases to ensure strong case law”.

Edward Lord agreed. He also said that the City of London Corp city solicitor and the Chief Exec are “strong allies”.

Regards the consultation doc put out by the City of London Corp… Lord implied that they were going to go through the answers and cherry pick the the qualitative snapshots.

One of the Mermaids mums in attendance said the “banner of concerned mothers of vulnerable children shouldn’t be captured by bigots”. Lord is meeting officers about how data is presented and is “conscious of that line of argument”

Jane Fae said the GC side are spreading a myth of predatory males- which doesn’t happen (!!! Lolz Karen White). And also spreading the myth that that TW are paedophiles (Loz Karen White x2).

Then (and Fae didn’t want this tweeted) apparently, there ARE terrible people exploiting The Equalities Act. And they are…

Man Friday
We Need To Talk
Fair Play for Women

According to Fae, all of the above have broken laws and engaged in upskirting and crotch shots of TW. Fae talked about debating Amy Desir of Man Friday about refuges. Amy talked about how female socialisation essentially stops us from refusing TW in our spaces.

JF then asked people not to tweet this next bit because it is libellous: Amy Desir took her husband into the Next changing rooms to commit voyeurism.
Fae (shouting): “Who is the pervert now?!!”

JF hopes that Amy and Man Friday are prosecuted." (continues)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3398737-We-re-Still-Here-Conference-8th-September-A-report-from-the-inside[/quote]
Jane Fae talking out of his extreme porn fetish advocating arse AGAIN.

Jane my love, if you are reading this and not masturbating to something sick and illegal, feel free to absorb the following points on which you are INCORRECT:

Amy Desir did not have a husband at the time of the Man Friday/Next changing rooms stunt.

Amy Desir did not commit or intend to commit voyeurism in the Next changing rooms (Luton shopping centre, lovely place. Absolutely fantastic response to our FPFW GRA reform campaign). The definition of voyeurism is the practice of gaining sexual pleasure whilst watching others engaging in sexual activity.

As I was the only other person in the Next changing rooms with Amy Desir, I can confirm that she and I used a camera phone to demonstrate the unsuitability of the flimsy curtains seperating each cubicle, which we then tweeted to Next. This is because neither of us believe that men who wish to self ID as women in public changing rooms should be allowed to, as it is not safe for biological women. There were no other shoppers or staff present in the changing rooms, and I can confirm that neither Amy or myself were sexually excited.

However, a quick Google shows me that Jane Fae appears to get his kicks from campaigning for the UK legalisation of all kinds of disgusting pornography, the common denominator of which heavily features violence against women, so he probably thinks that we are all as sick in the head as he is, right? Do remind me who the pervert is again, Jane?

I can also confirm that following on from the Breakfast TV debate between Amy and Jane, that he was an absolute arsehole towards her in private as well. Shocking, I know.

Also note: Amy Desir has undisputed ovaries of steel.

Intelligent! Unlike me, clearly.

I've just exercised my journalistic skills too and looked at the Wikipedia articles on Moore, Burchill and Bindel. Not only are their backgrounds clear, but not one of them is a graduate. How does that square with Hannah Ewens quoting without correction Dr Sophie Lewis's description of them as '– in some cases erstwhile radical – highly educated journalistic privileged people'. Self-educated, highly intellingent, widely read, undoubtedly. Not highly educated in the way that Hannah Ewens herself is - degree in Eng Lit form KCL, Master's in Journalism from City University.

Lees keeps a low profile these days because I think they're actually quite intelligent and saw exactly how this was going even a few years ago. That's my opinion anyway.

I agree, Lees is clever and articulate. Most of her contributions I've seen in recent years have been asking some of the silliest TRAs to shush.

We are bloody lucky that the other side is generally represented by the Amy Chalenors of the world. If every TRA was like Lees we would not have been so successful.

Ah, Vice, that bastion of well-informed journalism. I jest.

I didn’t reach the end of that very long piece of drivel but the cartoon somehow implying that ManFriday were racist is disgraceful.

I don’t think the person who wrote the bit about parks...

“The fetishisation of landscaped parks created by the aristocracy and maintained by Britain’s colonial expropriated wealth, without any consideration of the history of its making,” Mayer writes on email, “colludes in creating implicit exclusions.” In other words: even the bucolic spaces that anti-trans feminists wish to protect have class and segregation baked into their DNA.’

.... has actually ever been to say, Victoria Park in Hackney on a Sunday afternoon (nor spoken to a working class Londoner 😂)

Lees keeps a low profile these days because I think they're actually quite intelligent and saw exactly how this was going even a few years ago. That's my opinion anyway. They and certain others were very forceful when things were going their way but they see it has been overtaken by clueless youngsters who use vile, aggressive and demeaning language towards actual women and they don't want to be associated with that but they can't actually come out and say it so they're keeping quiet and watching it play out.

That Deptford group statement needs more attention imo. It says a lot.

I burst out laughing at the comparison of mumsnet to 4chan! The class analysis in this is really off putting. I’m from a working class background and loads of my working class friends are gender critical- it doesn’t ring true that this is a middle class movement. The writer says that bindel, Burchill, and Moore are middle class - but I just checked their wikis and they all grew up in working class families and went to comprehensive schools. Bindel didn’t even have an indoor toilet for gods sake. How can they just outright tell lies about people’s backgrounds and class like this?

Haven't read the full article but banging on about 3 feminists being white does lead me to ask whether Jaques, Faye or Lees are identifying as non-white now? Have I missed something? Or is it the way the excerpt reads due to editing?

Those who oppose their rights are frequently white, middle or upper middle-class people, or working-class people whose successful careers have afforded them a significant measure of social mobility.

Surely that describes any campaigning organisation in the UK? I think the public faces of the anti-self-ID cause are more working class than any UK equivalent I can think of. There is certainly no similar group which has so dominated by women, especially lesbians. And this idea that 'terfs are white' is just laughable.

Dreadful article. I saw a tweet from Julie Bindel earlier where she was spitting tacks about being described as privileged. She pointed out that she, Suzanne Moore and Julie Burchill were all unusual in having achieved success in journalism after coming from working-class families and going to the local state comprehensive school.

To supplement the Deptford Project statement R0wan linked to earlier, here's the Feminist Current article Meghan Murphy wrote about the left wing in the UK and GC issues, which includes a long section talking about the Deptford Project and the damaging effect of the woke youth of Goldsmith's. www.feministcurrent.com/2018/03/23/leftist-women-uk-refuse-accept-labours-attempts-silence-critiques-gender-identity/

I expect the women in Faye's porn tend to be either (a) successfully and easily dominated, or
(b) fully dominant from the start.

I don't think they tend to feature:

(c) man wants to dominate, woman says no and goes away, leaving man frustrated.