Reply from the Body Shop re JKR... just so dreadful...

This is brilliant.
drradfem.org/transgenderism-and-the-war-on-women/

I consider using biological or natal as a descriptor is more about filtering out the non female element, rather than putting the word woman in a box.
Releasing it from a box containing other elements that don't belong there, if you like.

I used words like biological and natal to hopefully make the point that sex and gender are different, and calling men women and women men is gender and thus different.

You have to remember that we are being called transphobic for acknowledging biology. I agree the word woman should mean biological woman, but the reality is that right now it doesn't. So if distinguishing between bio/natal and feelz helps to get the point across I'm all for it.

If I didn't I strongly suspect that they will see me as a woman as they claim to accept TW as women. And that I refuse. Because I don't need dresses or make up or long hair to show the world I am female.

I am a woman. I fully agree. But we are writing to woke sheep who are wilfully ignorant. They'll be first in line to denounce the concept of God because "no evidence", but accept the no evidence feels when it comes to sex.

It's like having to explain basic concepts to a toddler.

And I bet the toddler will at least understand.

Well I'd like to use Daye, but their website has a glossary which outlines AFAB - Assigned Female at birth, and cis-het

both of which I'm not willing to tolerate
yourdaye.com/

They think calling us menstruators is a clarification.

We don't want "clarifying" into irrelevant discriptors so why are we insisting on using them? Use English as it's meant to be used. If you are defining yourself in relation to their language you are joining in, you have lost the argument. Honestly, Google Dr Julia Long on this, it is one of her key messages........

Just like 1984.

This is the shit that happens to indigenous groups when colonisers take everything including their language and 'improve' it.

Unfortunately yes, too many people are now confused by what you mean when you say 'woman' to not need qualifiers when you're explaining about the specific, non male related group of female people. .

Bog off, spammer

The CEO thinks there are male women, so, I imagine major clarification is actually necessary. Still
I know you weren't talking to me, btw.

Language is the whole point. Keeping our language. Our words. Having to bang on about qualifying characteristics is the problem not the solution.

I've just noticed you then go on to say natal woman. Are you struggling with woman? Do you think this CEO will understand all these qualifiers?

acatcalledjohn

I appreciate you taking the time to write such a great letter but why do you say as a biological woman? Isn't that just as dehumanising and offensive as menstruator. What is a biological anything?

It's a jarring note. If we are talking about commonly understood language biological washing powder, sorry, woman isn't it.

Thanks

But there are sooooooo many better companies out there!

Lots. Small companies that need business, companies with ethics, companies that don't play for woke cookies, companies that don't lie (I know I have mentioned it before but I saw one trumpeting the trans women and Latinas who started the stonewall riots - then thanked these 'women' - I may have passed a kidney stone when I read that).

What a load of shit.

Just been on the body shops site to check something.

Try searching for 'men', then 'women', then 'man', and 'woman'

Not surprising, but..ugh.

The 'women' one, shows products but only as women has men in the name..no actual things for women seemingly.

Didn't want to make new thread as hate starting them, so thought it fit here well!

"Do these social media idiots not have anyone overseeing what they say at all?

Some do I suppose (who write this crap that they are told to parrot) and some are just loose cannons who think they have Something To Say.

However - the general stance of businesses these days is to crawl over broken glass should a Person of Pronoun whinge or make a demand - but ignore women who protest.

And their memo to staff does make it look like their tone deaf intervention in the JK Rowling row wasn't particularly well thought out.

A few years ago I made a comment to the Body Shop Twitter about Black Friday promotions, saying it was a shame that they’d moved so far from their ethical and campaigning beginnings. They wrote back that I was remembering something from a long time ago and maybe their brand was no longer for me.

Wow. That is their USP! It's the only reason most people shop there! They have survived this long on brand loyalty, not because they offer anything genuinely original now. Do these social media idiots not have anyone overseeing what they say at all?

it doesn’t affect you being the lucky owner of a penis

Glad it was useful, acatcalledjohn!

Nicely put.

...You forgot the menstruators and 'some men menstruate'. Exactly how any 'bleeding men' are they trying to appease? It would be cheaper to pay for their therapy- because f they are upset by biology, they mush be spending a lot of time hiding under the duvet.

'Not all people who are men' / 'Some women __' - we could have fun with this one.

Despite my message on Thursday they still haven't responded to me. So I have emailed the CEO too.

@LonginesPrime Thank you for your very reasoned explanation in relation to the legal impact of accepting TWAW/TWAM to Betty. It's helped me word my email and I will send something similar to my MP. You had worded how I feel, but I wasn't able to put it in words properly.

======

David,

Given that I have not received any feedback to my below mentioned query I feel I have to email you directly.

The Body Shop’s tweet to J.K. Rowling was out of order, yet no apology has been made. Especially given the tweet posted on Twitter on the 15th of April claiming to support victims of domestic violence stuck at home with their abusers during lockdown.

As biological women we have certain laws that give us rights and protection from sex based discrimination, sexual assault etc. By claiming TWAW and TMAM we blur the lines between sex and gender and, instead of true gender equality (e.g.: men allowed to wear dresses/make up, women not expected to wear heels/make up within their jobs) and the protection of trans people becoming additional law, natal women will be disadvantaged once again. We then cannot, for example, claim sex based discrimination against an employer simply for the misfortune of being born with a vagina and related physiology. Because if sex doesn’t exist, sex based discrimination does not exist.

There have been cases where men have identified as women in order to continue their abuse against natal women.

But given that The Body Shop see fit to verbally attack women (JK Rowling) who lobby for equality for all without erasing another group, I will no longer shop with TBS. You may be ok with erasing women’s sex based rights. After all, it doesn’t affect you being the lucky owner of a penis.

Please ensure my account is closed down and all my personal data held on TBS’s systems is removed as per GDPR regulations.

I do expect written confirmation that this has been done.

{name redacted}
A natal woman who doesn’t confirm to gender based stereotypes.