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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Labour 'stands back' from transgender war

218 replies

BovaryX · 15/06/2020 08:45

I haven't seen this already posted, apologies if it has been. The Times reports that Labour is 'standing back' from the transgender issue in recognition of the fact its threats to expel members with 'transphobic' views during the last election contributed to a collapse of Labour support in the 'Red Wall'. Meanwhile, an Amnesty International spokeswoman claims that the Conservative proposals amount to a 'hostile environment' for trans people in the UK.

^any such proposals would cause a headache for Sir Keir Starmer after disputes over the intersection of trans rights with feminism overshadowed the Labour leadership election. Sir Keir was the only candidate not to sign a pledge calling on the party to expel members with “transphobic” views. He instead tried to take the heat out of the issue.Last week JK Rowling was criticised by the stars of the Harry Potter films after she used her experience of domestic violence to express concerns about female-only spaces and warn against attempts to “erode ‘woman’ as a political and biological class”.
Labour has committed itself to reform of the Gender Recognition Act and David Lammy, the shadow justice secretary, said: “There’s now a change of view that people ought to be able to self-identify and not over-medicalise.” But he declined to go further, telling the BBC: “We would have to look at the legislation when it comes forward in detail^

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BaronessRadcliffeFemish · 15/06/2020 10:30

Welcome to Mumsnet! Jeez

VickyEadieofThigh · 15/06/2020 10:30

Trans women are not men! Jeez

What is a man? What is a woman? Such an authoritative statement as you've made there suggests you have quite clear definitions in mind.

CASCASCAS · 15/06/2020 10:26

Trans women are not men! Jeez

CourtneyLurve · 15/06/2020 09:56

Amnesty is hardly the best authority on human rights these days: www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/06/amnesty-international-has-toxic-working-culture-report-finds

forsucksfake · 15/06/2020 09:52

Feckless leadership.

Burying their heads after all the damage they have to done to erode the trust and respect of women.

To win me back, I will need an apology and an unequivocal pledge to protect of women's rights to single-sex spaces and freedom of association.

And that will never happen.

BovaryX · 15/06/2020 09:40

I am desperate to vote Labour but this is like getting a bunch of flowers from a petrol station the day after your birthday with the half price label still on

floisme

Grin
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VickyEadieofThigh · 15/06/2020 09:39

Ha ha. Still not voting for them. Not until they know what a woman is.

Nor am I. I suspect they've no idea how the word is spreading that Labour doesn't give a shite about women and girls - I encounter newby GC women every day on various forums.

Floisme · 15/06/2020 09:38

I am desperate to vote Labour but this is like getting a bunch of flowers from a petrol station the day after your birthday with the half price label still on. I agree it's a start and I will stand by and watch, but even I've got a bit more pride than this.

BovaryX · 15/06/2020 09:35

@Michelleoftheresistance

'Hostile environment for Trans people...'

fgs, it's deciding not to change the law but to keep the status quo. The law currently is not hostile.

It would have been extremely hostile to female people if the proposed changes to the law had been forced through, and I have no illusions that Starmer would have thought twice about it. Labour are misogynist to the core.

I agree. So many aspects of so much of the 'progressive' agenda are so riddled with contradictions.
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RuffleCrow · 15/06/2020 09:29

I know it doesn't seem it but this is actually quite a big leap forward for them. Contrast with the LP under Corbyn. Still not voting for them but interested to see how things progress.

TeaAndStrumpets · 15/06/2020 09:28

Labour struggled with antisemitism, I think misogyny is the next thing they fail to tackle. Sorry, I am a pessimist.

BovaryX · 15/06/2020 09:27

@BolloxtoGender

I agree. It's quite incredible.

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Michelleoftheresistance · 15/06/2020 09:27

'Hostile environment for Trans people...'

fgs, it's deciding not to change the law but to keep the status quo. The law currently is not hostile.

It would have been extremely hostile to female people if the proposed changes to the law had been forced through, and I have no illusions that Starmer would have thought twice about it. Labour are misogynist to the core.

Gncq · 15/06/2020 09:25

I can't forgive them for signing that pledge saying apparently I'm expelled (if I were actually a member).

I'll never vote for them ever again and that's frankly astonishing seeing as I'll also never vote right wing in my life.

I don't see this as "back tracking" it's just them being a bit quiet on an issue that should be a priority.

BovaryX · 15/06/2020 09:24

I would be surprised if there is any solid evidence that trans issues were a big factor in the outcome of the general election

No. It was merely one example, one that was amplified in the run up to the election as candidates struggled and squirmed and were unable to define the meaning of simple words. Constituencies that had voted Labour for over a century switched sides. Labour was perceived as a party obsessed with identity politics, with a leader who thought patriotism was a dirty word. Labour had ceased to represent or understand the concerns of its traditional voters. They returned the favour in December. This came as a huge shock to Owen Jones et al because Twitter had announced a landslide victory for Labour. As for lessons learned? Nope. Zero sign of that.

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KaronAVyrus · 15/06/2020 09:23

I don’t think that it was just the TRAs who damaged labour but the whole identity politics concept.
It’s generally pushed by middle class students and graduates. It doesn’t have any appeal to the vast majority of the working class who were completely ignored or just insulted if they queried any of this. Labour has lost its way and forgotten why it was created in the first place.

rogdmum · 15/06/2020 09:23

Well, on the back of this, I have again written to Keir Starmer to see whether he will now push for an inquiry for the 4000% increase in Tavi referrals, given his complete non answer to me on Mumsnet. Undoubtedly I will be ignored again.

Labour 'stands back' from transgender war
SarahTancredi · 15/06/2020 09:23

They have sone major apologising to do.

They saw the likes of nandy and swinson and butler make utter fools of themselves taking the compete denial of facts to its desired end conclusion , they have their work cut out trying to sound even half credible unless they cant just ignore it and hope everyone forgets.

It's all.on you tube ffs.

RoyalCorgi · 15/06/2020 09:21

Let's not forget that this idiotic proposal to "reform" the GRA was put forward by Theresa May's government, with support from people like Maria Miller.

The Tory Party has a new leader, but so does Labour. Starmer isn't stupid. Admittedly, many members of his front bench as well as the backbenchers and quite a lot of ordinary party members support this nonsense, but Rome wasn't built in a day. (I'm in danger of talking myself out of my own argument here.)

The opposition to GRA reform was led largely by women who were active in the Labour Party and trade union movement. We still have a say in what happens and we will continue to push for what's right. Starmer is somehow going to have to find a way of treading a line between the nutters in the party who support changing the GRA and the sensible people who don't. That's a pretty impossible path so at some point he'll have to come down one side or another. And if he's got any sense at all, he'll realise that the vast majority of the electorate don't want self-ID. Given the current parlous state of the Labour Party in parliamentary terms, I'd opt for not pissing off the people you want to vote for you.

LillianBland · 15/06/2020 09:19

@CASCASCAS

Gosh so anti Trans. Many moments here. Dear me.
So pro women. Some men don’t like that. Oh dear me.
BolloxtoGender · 15/06/2020 09:15

It happened during the GE. The pledges were all over Twitter.

transdimensional · 15/06/2020 09:12

"in recognition of the fact its threats to expel members with 'transphobic' views during the last election contributed to a collapse of Labour support in the 'Red Wall'"

I don't think that's correct. I think this threat came during the leadership election, not during the general election.

I would be surprised if there is any solid evidence that trans issues were a big factor in the outcome of the general election - even though I suspect most voters (and most Red Wall voters) would agree that TRA activists are taking things too far.

BolloxtoGender · 15/06/2020 09:11

@BovaryX absolutely. Cultural Revolution mark 2, uk version.

BolloxtoGender · 15/06/2020 09:10

For me, it seems Labours core values are identity politics, the narrative of the oppressed versa the privileged.

BovaryX · 15/06/2020 09:10

BolloxtoGender

It's the reductive, authoritarian, binary idiocy of so much of this. And if you don't just obediently jump aboard, irrespective of doubts or questions, you are denounced.

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