I'm going to write a book: 'Why I'm no longer talking to men about feminism'

@GreytExpectations

What a childish response ! Please do link to / quote where I have derailed a thread on BLM.

In fact, why don’t you report all the times I’ve done that to MN and get me banned?

Or is this one of your “ Someone did a mean thing to me once so now I have a free pass to behave badly towards everyone for the rest of my life “?

but they will NOT be the allies of women.

That's a massive generalisation, I know plenty of men who are alies of women and are very engaged with women's rights, I've had really meaningful conversations with them about the issues and made suggestions to reading materials ect. Think a lot of it depends on the men in your life. Of course there are men who still need to be educated, just as there are white people who also need to be educated on BLM and sadly mainly women who feel that their own issues are being out aside. It's very much similar to when men chime in with "what about international men's day". Both need addressing and actioning and we need to find away of doing that by joining forces, not creating divisions. Sadly the later seems to be happening. And I am referring to BAME women issues, which often get ignored in feminism discussions, there is actually an excellent part of WINLTTWPAR where she discusses intersectionality and I wish we could have more conversations on here like that but they just get shut down with "derailing" because white women seem to think BAME women's issues aren't part of the overall women's issues.

The problem is men will never read it.

We tell ourselves that the men in our lives ( friends, partners, relatives ) don’t get it because they don’t know or understand what we have gone through.

But then when we tell them, we discover that it’s not that they don’t know. It’s that they don’t care.

That’s what really hurts.

I wish we could upvote comments.

It's because men can empathise with transwomen. They think "imagine how difficult my life would be if I started wearing dresses and make up and going by a female name". But they struggle to empathise with what it's like to be sexually harassed or objectified. In fact many men feel jealous of women - they think "imagine how amazing it would be to have all these men lusting after you".

YY. That's so true.

I really cannot fathom how someone can blithely dismiss the lived experiences of another person and resolutely ignore the fact that they are asking the same for another group of people.

It really is frustrating, infuriating and depressing.

I think the title is a poor choice in itself, but took the OP to mean something like WINLTTWPAR.
In my first reply I nearly said something along the lines of running the idea past Reni Eddo-Lodge, but just by the tone of the OP, I thought it was not something she was seriously considering. More that she was frustrated and throwing the idea out.
I'm somebody who tends to read between the lines though, and I've learnt from my time on MN that many people take things much more literally.

I am still baffled and heartbroken and saddened by the reaction. And today I literally can't stop thinking about it.

This is why men laugh at women when we talk, to produce this reaction. Men hate being laughed at, it can provoke a violent response from them - but they frequently do it to women. Its a form of negging.
www.healthline.com/health/mental-health/negging

You should. White men will be the allies of black men (now) but they will NOT be the allies of women.

I think the black lives matter movement has a ''coolness'' about it that women's Aid does not have. I swear to God in the ten years I've been on facebook sharing information about underfunded refuges and childcare issues squeezing women out of workplace and making them vulnerable and financially dependent, pay gap issues, greater expectations on women and at a younger age, domestic abuse atrocities, men do not ''like'' they do not ''share'' and I am left witnessing the fact that they do not care.

I do not post relentlessly. I post jokes, I post netflix recommendations. So I'm not like a dog with one bone on facebook. But I have ten years of observation under my belt. Men do not care.

I’ll buy it. And I’ll buy a few more to donate to charity shops to get a few more in circulation.

Apologies for the title, I'll ask Mumsnet to change it as I don't feel it really illustrates what I intended my thread to be about.

I think that's a good suggestion. As a BAME woman who had been reccomending the book for years for it only now to be getting read, it's frustrating to see people reading it and missing the point. Hopefully you can understand that but appreciate you have realised. And no I'm not be obtuse but don't think there was any need for that insult.

I'm so tired of men telling me what a woman is.

From "celebrities" like Radcliffe and Redmayne, to "woke" male friends, to my lovely cousin who just now, to my utter despair, posted Mermaids response to JKR on Facebook, encouraging us to read it and donate to them. I remember him as a kid - he was the most unstereotypical boy you could imagine, and if he'd been a child now they'd have had him on puberty blockers before you could say "TWAW." Had they done so, it's highly unlikely he'd have grown up to be the happily married father of two he is today.

I'm also so angry with myself for not being brave enough to stand up and tell them all this. I'm an actor, it would be absolute career suicide for me. I'm not famous, I have no clout or power, I'm just a jobbing actor. If I open up about my views, I won't even be that anymore.

But I'm still so sick of it.

2/10 for the derailing attempt BTW

Instead it's more of a rant about how angry I am at my lived experiences as a woman being dismissed by men because either they cannot fathom the extent of it or they simply don't care

We tell ourselves that the men in our lives ( friends, partners, relatives ) don’t get it because they don’t know or understand what we have gone through.

But then when we tell them, we discover that it’s not that they don’t know. It’s that they don’t care.

That’s what really hurts. When we open up our heart and lives to then and they respond “ So fucking what? You are just a woman, what did you expect? Men have it worse so you need to centre them and STFU” .

Remember that the worst thing about Male violence is that it makes men ie them look bad. No wonder they don’t want to hear about it.

If you want to have a rant then fine, but that doesn't really make for good material as a book. Why don't you consider using the book to actually educate people?

I saw your reply, still don't quite understand why you felt that using that same format of title is a good idea. It's clearly coined from her book, or are you claiming you just came up with it?

Personally as I was read WINLTTWPAR I felt that despite being white I could empathise because I had tried to talk to men about mysogyny...

So you took a serious issue such as racism and white privaledge and somehow not only made it about you but also added in a bit of whataboutery??? The concept was for white people to actually educate themselves on their own white privaledge and WHY is hard to talk to them about race. Guess you just proved the point of her title.

@TheEighthHorcrux

I'm not mocking anything

I used it because I feel it conveys how I feel...

Talking to men about feminism feels futile and exhausting.

If you are serious about writing a book, that title is a poor choice because of the already existing book I have mentioned. It wouldn't come across well at all as it would seem like you are just copying that authors idea

OP, I am sorry that you have been laughed at by a man, simply for expressing your reasonable, logical views about this current madness which is negatively affecting girls and women everywhere.
By laughing, he has revealed a side of him which is very unpleasant, it has revealed that he has zero empathy towards women.

Talking to men about feminism feels futile and exhausting

Yes it is. So is talking to white people about race.

I understand the desire to do something similar - its a great concept and potentially useful in the same way Invisible Women is a useful resource. I would however either come up with a new title concept or get the buy in/credit the black women who coined it.