I'm going to write a book: 'Why I'm no longer talking to men about feminism'

In all honesty the title of this thread was quite a flippant, off the cuff way to describe how I was/am feeling

I really do think the concept is worthwhile.

Its is important to reflect that range of women's experiences as they are compounded by race but also social class, age etc. The compounding factors are often neglected and are used to divide us. The more men (and women) the project speaks to, the more impact it could have.

I don't quite see what is offensive about the thread title either - WIANLTTWPAR is a fantastic book and there are obvious parallels between self-absorbed white people who make racism all about them and self-absorbed men who make feminism all about them.

This black woman found nothing offensive or "mocking" about the play on the title of Ms Eddo-Lodge's book.

All I said was I felt I could empathise with the author's frustration about talking to white people about race because I've tried to talk to men about misogyny and felt a similar frustration... is there really no equivalence there? It seems to me that there is. I just wanted to defend to OP because I really don't think she was literally going to steal the book title and her original post was very raw and heartfelt and I thought accusing her of "mocking" the book was unfair. But clearly it was a problematic thing to say so I apologise for any upset caused.

@Brandaris you said nothing you should regret!

I'm not getting anywhere with a number of women either though, even when they have had children and have suffered DV and more

This has been my frustrating and maddening experience too.

So now, I no longer state my opinions or try to refer to my life history.

Because what women experience, no matter how horrific, pales in comparison to those of men of any persuasion, but especially those who claim to be women. Only they are worthy of compassion.

So now when I talk to "allies" of either sex, I just ask them all basic questions about GI that they inevitably embarrass themselves answering. You can see the light go off in their heads as they realise they are making no sense at all.

And I just nod and make my way through the list of questions.

They will pad their nonsensical answers out with the lies of self-righteousness and compassion: "most vulnerable, most marginalised" and false stats, and always, always tell you about their T friend who has had such a hard life, worse than any woman could ever experience. And they will lie about women raping and abusing and assaulting too.

Pay that no mind: The light has gone off and if they are half-way intelligent, they will begin to question.

And OP, I agree. It is so hurtful and enraging to open up about such personal and painful and uniquely-because-of-our-biology experiences and have them dismissed with the flick of a hand by an arrogantly ignorant, self-righteous and disdainful man.

I had a male acquaintance try to shut me down over this.

I may have asked him not to use his male privilege to mansplain my lived experience of being a woman.

It didn’t go down well so I asked if he was expecting my female socialisation to force me to defer to him.

He buggered off. I’m still not sorry. But I am so very done with pretending to listen to men spouting horrible misogynistic stuff at me while trying to educate/indoctrinate me. You have my sympathy.

Count me in - I’ll buy a copy.

The whole trans thing sends my blood pressure climbing, and is one of the issues that goes round and round my head, getting me more and more upset, when I lie awake with insomnia (every night).

I would love to read this book OP.

@TheEighthHorcrux how odd as normally they do edit thread titles much further along but ah well. It was nice of you to try.

You seem to be the only one claiming I'm derailing the thread. The OP amongst a few others have actually said I raised some good points. Maybe either join in the discussion or stop trying to pick a fight.

Where did I say I was upset ? Would that be in the same place that I derailed BAME threads?

Surely @GreytExpectations you are not trying to characterise my different opinion as irrational ? I though you were open to different views.

Telling someone to “ calm down “ is a highly inappropriate response to a black woman raising issues that concern her.

@TheEighthHorcrux definitely and it's great you are so open minded to it! Any feminist book in my opinion should include BAME voices as its a large population of women. Yes women are oppressed and have to deal with sexism every day. But BAME women are oppressed for both their skin colour and their sex, its important to ensure discussions on the subject include them. Dismissing them as derailing is not helpful to anyone and its great to see you and others on this thread are open to the conversation.

@IM0GEN OP seems happy with the points I've raised and is wanting to discuss them. I'm not sure why you seem upset by this?

That’s a great idea @GreytExpectations , why don’t you start your own thread about it rather than derailing the OP s?

Please note, I'm not trying to derail at all. I'm trying to bring the two issues together as that's the only way things will get tackled. I'd like to see more white feminists understanding and listening the BAME feminists discuss their issues. Hopefully things can start to change because on a different site I use there is the generic "feminism" board but then there is a "BAME feminism" one which I think makes the issues so much worse.

It's very refreshing on a thread to see posters take on board other poster's viewpoints, and considering them. Good discussion should help people see the point of view of others, yet so often on SM, you just see people vehemently forcing their opinions, and becoming more polarised in their views.
I enjoy being stretched and engaged by other poster's differing opinions in the more intelligent threads, so thank you all, particularly @TheEighthHorcrux and @GreytExpectations.

[quote IM0GEN]@GreytExpectations

What a childish response ! Please do link to / quote where I have derailed a thread on BLM.

In fact, why don’t you report all the times I’ve done that to MN and get me banned?

Or is this one of your “ Someone did a mean thing to me once so now I have a free pass to behave badly towards everyone for the rest of my life “?[/quote]
You really are overreacting, calm down dear.

but they will NOT be the allies of women.

Nope, standing by this. The % of men who not only get it, but who will publicly let that be known is kind of insignificant.

Its probably a good idea to get the obligatory NAMALT and Not My Nigel over with early in the thread.