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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

DD is gender non conforming

112 replies

Rushhomeroad · 13/06/2020 12:46

DD is 9 and has been gender non conforming since about 3. When I say gender non conforming, I mean she prefers to look like a boy ('male' clothes, short hair, 'male' activities and games). She has been mistaken for a boy all her life and she's not particularly bothered. I've asked if she wants me to correct people but generally she doesn't.
I've never been bothered by what she chooses to wear or play, as long as she's happy, so am I (DH is the same). She saw a few children's programs about children changing sex when she was about 7 and asked if she could become a boy. We talked about it and I explained that there was no magic wand that would give her a penis - the children in the documentaries still had female genitals in their pants. I explained what they would have to go through to become a different sex (surgery, medicine etc). I also told her she was born perfect, and that I loved her just the way she is without needing surgery or medicine to feel accepted. The relief she felt was very obvious - immediate reduction in tears and tantrums, more cuddles and happier child. We're all happy... apart from the increasing number of times she is confronted by strangers. She rarely goes to clubs or classes if she doesn't know anyone, following being cornered by 6 older girls in a girls toilet, telling her she had to leave as she was a boy. She's had similar at holiday clubs. Her swimming lessons had group changing and three families moved class as they didn't want their daughters changing with a boy. So what do I do if society isn't ready to embrace gender non conformity? DD has even used men's public toilets when out with her dad rather than go in the women's alone. So how do we make women's safe spaces safe for girls/women who are non conforming? I even laughed at one parent and asked that if I was trying to pass my son off as a girl, I would have put a lot more effort into it!!
So she doesn't need a third space, she is using facilities intended for her sex, but still isn't safe.
Suggestions?

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nickEcave · 13/06/2020 13:27

My daughter is 13 and was gender non-conforming since age 9. I say was because she is no longer with the constant assumptions that she is trans or thinks she is a boy. Like your daughter she has been challenged when with me in ladies public toilets. She is now growing out her short hair and (before lockdown) started wearing a skirt rather than trousers to school. It makes me want to weep for the fucked up gender stereotypes our daughters have to battle. I don't like the phrase "tomboy" but when I was a kid in 70s/80s she would have been described this way and allowed to get on with it.

Flywheel · 13/06/2020 13:26

Those families are nuts. I also "presented as a boy" until I was about 12. I regularly passed for a boy and sometimes used the men's when out with my dad and brother. But I was never challenged in the ladies or in changing rooms. Gender non-confirming girls are surely not that unusual. I can think of several in my kids school. Pre pubescent boys and girls don't look that different. I'm amazed it wouldn't cross someone's mind the the 'boy' in the changing room couldn't be a girl with short hair.
One things for sure. I'm very glad I grew up in the 70s / 80s as I think the thought of transitioning would have really appealed to me

Rushhomeroad · 13/06/2020 13:26

Thank you DuDu. Her school got involved when they organised school swimming lessons and said girls had to wear one piece girls swimming costumes. My daughter refused and would rather not go than have to wear one. I eventually got them to back down and she was fine in her rash vest and shorts. But it got the school involved and they recommended I contact mermaids for support and would be happy to help transition her as they had just done it for someone else. I explained my take on the situation, and the headteacher was very supportive of helping her accept herself as she is. I worry about her next school though as they have many transitioned pupils and seem to use it as an inclusive selling point.

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Doyoumind · 13/06/2020 13:24

I know it's little consolation at this point but it won't belong until change to her body tell everyone what sex she and then hopefully she can live a happy gender non confirming life.

Mumoblue · 13/06/2020 13:18

When someone told me I didn't look/act like a girl when I was younger I always said "What does a girl look/act like?"

When people have to actually think about their obvious sexism they tend to get a little flustered.

I think everyone is GNC, because nobody is 100 percent Barbie or 100 percent Action Man.
You're doing a great job with your daughter. Just keep letting her see all sorts of women, so she can understand how absurd the concept of "looking" or "acting" like a woman is.

DuDuDuLangaLangaBingBong · 13/06/2020 13:18

Your poor DD, caught up in all this current palaver through no fault of her own.

Keep supporting her as you are, you are absolutely right in that clothing or activity preferences say nothing at all about biological sex.

My husband does all the cooking (and food shopping) and I do all the DIY (currently brick laying raised flowerbeds but will be moving an internal doorway next).

Be warned though, the pressure to assume a trans identity will likely intensify at secondary school. We’ve been going through an episode where our 13 year old has been encouraged to take on a boys name by a school counsellor, simply because she is uncomfortable with her brand new pubertal curves, wants to wear trousers and doesn’t like changing with the girls because of lesbophobic bullying (she’s been out as bi for a year and girls make some very cruel jokes about not wanting to change in front of her. School has been absolutely shit at dealing with the bullying and instead suggests she change in the ‘gender neutral’ loo. 🙄

Lockdown has been brilliant because all that nasty peer bullying can’t get to her, so she’s been admitting that school wanting to change her name and gender marker is driven by staff, not her.

Depending on how things shake out by the time schools go back, we may change her school and/or instigate legal action.

Buckle down, but keep doing what you are doing.

Rushhomeroad · 13/06/2020 13:13

She wears size 10-11 years. The black shorts are mostly covered by the rash vest, so not obvious what's inside, I guess.

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Aesopfable · 13/06/2020 13:07

Families changed lessons so they didn’t have to change with a 9 year old who looked like a boy? That doesn’t ring true. She would have presumably have been in a girls swimming costume and they don’t exactly hide your contours. And how could they be sure she was 9 not a large 7 - an age when children get changed with their parents regardless of sex.

In terms of suggestion - fight to keep single-sex spaces and overturn gender ideology.

Rushhomeroad · 13/06/2020 13:02

I'd talked to the mums during lessons. Dropped things into conversation about how she likes wearing her brothers clothes etc. She wears a rash vest and (tankini) shorts for swimming - not worn a girls costume since she was three.
They couldn't get passed her looks to accept what was being said to them. I have (on a bad day) snapped back that she has two ovaries and a uterus which is all the credentials that should be necessary to be in the girls changing room!

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OhHolyJesus · 13/06/2020 12:56

This is what I feared, the society the trans lobby want to engineer is to further reduce our options for women and girls as well as remove our rights sanctioned in law.

The world we allow to be created will not benefit GNC girls (or boys).

Now we have an additional fight to ensure GNC kids are accepted by their peers.

I'll come back with something more constructive later OP but hope someone comes along soon with better advice.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 13/06/2020 12:56

Her swimming lessons had group changing and three families moved class as they didn't want their daughters changing with a boy

Do these people not know she's female though? Does she wear trunks rather than costume?

Lordfrontpaw · 13/06/2020 12:49

That was my sister. She even had a male persona that she used (she gave me a boys name too). This was 1970s AFN Scotland. It’s today’s poisonous trendy gender crap that is the problem.