DD is gender non conforming

I have no idea whether Anna McNuff considers herself GNC, but she's certainly a fab role model for all young girls.
www.annamcnuff.com

What exactly is gender conforming anyway... without any sexist tropes?

Keep supporting her. Bringing up in conversation how ridiculous people are who put people in narrow boxes. Give her the strength to believe in who she is and how that has fuck all to do with the clothes she wears, the length of her hair, her favourite colours, her hobbies etc. There is not a school in my city that doesn’t have an active LGBT+ group. Where a couple of years ago I would have thought this a lovely supportive thing for a school to have I now just think ‘how are they at supporting girls and championing their rights’ because I know from experience that these groups totally over emphasise rigid stereotyping, encourage exploration that gender non-conformity = trans and usually have mainly young girls who don’t conform to the cheerleader stereotype and therefore believe they’re ‘masculine’ which in turn tends to lead on to them believing they’re a boy.

As long as she’s supported in her non-conformity by you she’ll hopefully learn to stand up for herself. And I personally would never challenge a young teenage person in a toilet If they looked androgynous and I’m surprised that any woman would. I would just assume they were a lesbian, butch, a plain old non-conforming girl (like I was) or non-binary girl or transboy - all of whom have a right to be in the women’s toilet. I truly believe that I am able to distinguish a 14 year Male from a 14 year old female no matter what their hairstyle, stature or dress. And I certainly would not want to embarrass anyone of that age by accusing them of being in the wrong toilet (unless their behaviour was off and therefore caught my attention) Would anyone else on here?

I’ve seen on twitter a person who sells mini penises for girls to ‘wear’. Now who’s obsessed with what’s in people’s knickers?

She saw a few children's programs about children changing sex when she was about 7 and asked if she could become a boy. We talked about it and I explained that there was no magic wand that would give her a penis - the children in the documentaries still had female genitals in their pants.

I know TRAs like to use the whole obsession with “what’s in trans folk pants” as a sort of gotcha but it seems a bit weird to use those terms when talking to a (then) 7 year old.

Why not just say that she can’t turn into a boy?

This is horrible. I don't remember this kind of shit when I was a kid, decades ago - some girls had short hair and it was no issue. What on earth has happened?

Indeed. Look at photos of primary age children taken in the 60s and most girls had short hair - I can still name the 2 girls in my own Junior 4 (Y6) class who had long hair!

What happened was in the last 20 years, the media ramped up - especially via social media - pressure on girls and women to be "feminine" according to a set of stereotypes like never before.

This has been massively part of what has caused so many young people in particular to believe they're 'trans', in my opinion.

so she doesn't like pink and frilly, likes to do interesting stuff rather than the princessy nonsense and has short hair. Why does that mean she needs an operation or a transition?

the sillybitch mothers of her classmates do indeed need to get out more. (Actually they all need a good slap but you'd get in trouble for that) They are bringing up their daughters to a very limited set of choices as well as teaching some terrible attitudes.

if she doesn't have male genitalia she gets changed with all the others who also don't have male genitalia. Where's the problem? Why did no-one intervene to explain that she is biologically female?

sounds an awful school and an awful set of holiday clubs if this bullying is allowed. I hope she can find some places where people aren't so pig-thick.

This is horrible. I don't remember this kind of shit when I was a kid, decades ago - some girls had short hair and it was no issue. What on earth has happened?

I'm a wee bit older than your DD but I was very much a tomboy (now called GNC) and still have "male" haircut and wear pretty much masculine clothes. At pre pubertal age you really can only tell sex from assumed appearance sad as it is, thats how boys can fool people with the right clothes and hairstyle (as one "new girl" did at DDs school for about a year). You are doing the right thing embracing GNC but steer her from any notions of medical pathways. I still get the odd look in toilets/changing rooms and more now thanks to halfwit TRAs but having been through female puberty I maybe second looks but not third.

I don't think the OP was about whether she should be able to 'be herself' or not though - it was how to make single-sex spaces safe ... from... comments? Being cornered by older girls - I have no idea tbh, bullying is a really dreadful problem and especially now people are going to be wary of males in places they previously thought were female-only. There's all sorts of fallout from this fight, it's awful.

Why can’t she just be herself? A female who doesn’t enjoy stereotypical female things. That’s absolutely fine. She can dress as she likes, play how she likes and love who she likes. None of it makes her male.

OP you are her mother.

You and only you, can love and know her in the way you do.

You do not need to be pressured by society into raising the subject of transition with your daughter, who seem to see it as the only confirmation you are supportive of her choices. Please be very clear with the school on how you want this to be approached.

Like I said, i was very tomboyish at school, I dont remember anyone mentioning it. I remember thinking my sister was weird for wanting a baby doll though if anything a lot of my interests caught on in my friendship group.

There was also a girl at my (all girls) school who dressed in boys clothing, wore a suit to our prom etc. Nobody batted an eyelid, it was just 'that's just so-and-so'. She was very popular and had plenty of friends. I'm not sure if she was a lesbian, nobody asked or cared really.

I think the trans lobby has removed a person's right to be individual and dress how they like without their gender being challenged. Everyone just assumes you will transition, I think it is a harmful assumption.

A few things here don,t make much sense.

DD changed into shorts covering her lap with a towel, otherwise stripped off to change. The other girls were mostly younger and had no problems being nude in front of strange women. Maybe that's the difference?

Possibly. Would she wear one of Speedo girl swimsuits? They have the same coverage as shorts and a vest but the detail on them make them look for girls.

She has my sympathy about not wanting to be naked in front of strangers. I wouldn't use a communal changing room where I had to be naked but possibly her covering up isn't helping.

Can't you just explain she's a bit of a ton boy 🤔

I mean that's what we used to call girls who didn't conform to feminist ideals, a Tom boy.

OP are you new to MN or just namechanged? Just that it seems to be extremely normal to have a dd who isn't overtly feminine yet i would have thought unusual for enough people to have commented or been aggressive that you need to ask for ideas for "how do we make women's safe spaces safe for girls/women who are non conforming?"

The doctor story would make me wonder if there is something else going on. Did he think your daughter was presenting as a trans boy? "It" would be an extremely odd way to refer to any person.

Her move to a much larger school is concerning as she has been bullied by children who didn't know her, and as she gets older she'll have to deal with these things more and more independently

Somehow you will have to impress a confidence in her, so that other peoples comments just slide right off her.
The knowledge I have at my age means other peoples opinions dont matter and I'm happy to shrug it off. I have no idea how you would do this.

Her swimming lessons had group changing and three families moved class as they didn't want their daughters changing with a boy

Would the children have seen each other naked? When I was forced to go to swimming as part of PE the girls used the changing cubicles or changed under a towel. We didn't see each other naked.

Is there an AIBU somewhere asking-

Am I justified in taking my 9 year old daughter out of a swimming class which allows a boy in the changing room? The mother says the child is a girl but he isn't

I would call all of this bullying and nothing else. What have we come too ?

we need to stop labeling.
what's gender non conforming?
just normal.
pp are all different.

My 11 year old daughter has worn only boys clothes since she was 3. She wears the boys school uniform and lives in t-shirts, shorts and hoodies outside school. At weddings and formal events she'll wear a suit or t-shirt with a waistcoat and trousers. She has short hair and no interest in getting her ear pierced or wearing makeup or perfume. She wears shirts and rash T-shirt when she goes swimming.
Her school, family and friends have never taken a blind bit of notice. She is just accepted for who she is. She is a girl who likes to wear boys clothes. She finds them more comfortable and practical. She thinks children transitioning is a nonsense. She isn't gay. She just wears what she likes to wear and enjoys gaming, Warhammer and scouts.
I'm fascinated at how confident she is but am worried about her starting at secondary school as I know she'll be challenged by the children who don't know her.
How ridiculous it all is... they are just clothes!

The hair thing is curious. It's hugely loaded as a symbol of feminity.

As a child I was very uncomfortable with perceived tropes of girlyness. I insisted on having short hair and comfortable clothes. I wore (and still do) mostly trousers and t-shirts. I frequently got mistaken for being a boy, which actually really annoyed me, because I wasn't a boy.
One of my cousin's was very similar, except she wanted to be a boy, used a boy's name (we all called her by this name) but kept her hair long.
I'm now middle aged, married to a man and a parent. My cousin is definitely female and I suspect quietly gay. We're not close and I haven't seen her in a long time.
I really don't think it's unusual for children to reject gender stereotypes as they grow up and work out who they are. In the 1970's it wasn't remarkable to me.
It's very unusual to see girls these days with short hair. Medium to long seems to be the default and this in itself is making short hair seem more like a statement around gender.