Celeb supporters of jkr

@pappyon

But the majortiy of people on both sides of the debate rightly call out that sort of language.

Sadly I don't think that's true. Rachel 'die in a grease fire' McKinnon is the loudest voice for single-sex sports, hugely prominent in the media.

Jane Fae, Munroe Bergdorf and many other very mainstream trans voices have said awful things.

I don't think these people represent trans people, I don't even think most of the extreme voices have gender dysphoria, but as long as they are the face of trans issues then genuine transphobia with continue to grow.

You won't find a single prominent feminist promoting abuse, threats or harassment in the same way.

It is sad that celebrity women like Emma Watson are throwing schoolgirls under the bus. She's never had to deal with the anti-girl policies they are faced with in school these days, and her wealth protects her.

I said this on the other thread but I think it's women (and men) in their mid 20s and 30s who are the most woke as they will not have been personally affected by consequences of trans ideology such as the taking away of single sex spaces in schools, but don't yet have daughters who will be affected.

But I do think there's an increasing number of the generation below who are GC - the girls in school today who are holding their wee in all day rather than use unisex facilities and feel forced to stay at home - missing out on education - during their period due to unisex facilities and period shaming. The real world consequences are hitting them and through them their parents and grandparents.

But it's seemingly not cool to care about kids, it's more cool to parrot a nonsensical slogan and not think too deeply about it.

My point is that the side that wants to exclude transwomen from women's toilets (let's call them gender critical) always make out that they somehow have the moral high ground because they don't resort to threats of violence, and they thus encourage free speech. That's clearly illogical, in that it judges the majority against the actions of a horrible minority.

Its only illogical to you.

One side demands men who self ID as women to be allowed freely into women's safe spaces. Spaces where women are vulnerable. They also send rape, choking and strangulation death threats frequently to women who say no.

And you don't want us to talk about it?

Can you even hear yourself?

women have the protected characteristic of sex and we are entitled to single sex spaces for our safety, privacy and dignity.

Organisations lobbying for trans rights, like stonewall, are seeking to demolish that right and get the EA changed.

Our moral high ground is about protecting our rights from those who seek to erode them. It's that simple.

But it's also wrong. The people who don't want trans women to use women's toilets includes people who literally rape and kill trans people for who they are. And even if you don't include those people, there's plenty of toxic language, death and rape threats online too by people who share their view.

Eg. From a post on Glindr.

"I wrote a poem. English not my first language but I hope this is okay.

Cunt entirely off you bunch of muppets / I've got a fucking knife / The pressure in my head grows worse, soon I kill / Every penis must be sliced like a cunting savely / Shit off or I muder."

So the problem clearly isn't owned by mainstream trans rights activists (or whatever you want to call them), so instead of conflating the issues and focusing on the toxic discourse as a problem of the trans rights movement, why don't we just call it out and move on?

pappyon
You mentioned the arguments for TWAW.
Can you explain them please?
The 'they just feel like women' line isnt very informative, imo

People who are against trans rights don't just threaten to harm kill and rape trans people for who they are.

People who hate women escalate their threats of violence, harm and rape into actual violence all the time - this includes many transwomen. As perpetrators, not victims, to be absolutely clear.

By contrast, no one in this conversation is "against trans rights", we just want women to have our own single-sex spaces.

(Apologies if i failed to properly decipher what you meant with that sentence; you would communicate better if you used appropriate punctuation.)

Jonathan Pie (indirectly and a couple of minutes in..)

Funny how it happens like that

Thats a good point helmet

Jkr gets death and rape threats

Sk gets a bit of disappointment...mainly cos he flip flops like a flippy floppy thing

How are they forcing you to believe it?

Yes of course and then researched and thought it all through to conclusion - back to square one.

I think it a sad situation that anorexics see fat in the mirror too.

Trying to obfusticate by adopting the language of stereoisomerism and any other flimflam that comes to hand doesn't persuade me to parrot memes.

Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, nobody is entitled to force those beliefs on others.

Interesting. I had no idea what her book will be about. I know it’s called ‘More than a Woman’ so maybe she can wriggle out of making a statement that way.

I don’t know how you can write about feminism and tell the story of your childhood that had been shaped by being female (4 times, the same story, in 4 formats) And not at least recognise that there is no such thing as women being threatened by rape and murder by saying biological sex exists.

Caitlin Moran has a new book coming out. It is the sequel to how to be a woman and covers ageing menopause etc. It will be interesting as he previous book is very focused on biology but she has said TWAW. I think it would be harder to get that balance now.

I may be thinking too much into this but I reckon that anyone who obviously swerves talking about this when it’s an open goal is either on the fence or not a massive fan of the TWAW / if you disagree with me you should die in a grease fire line.

Was listening to Kermode and Mayo Film podcast. They were going through a list and talking a little about every entry. They then mentioned Daniel Radcliffe with no comment at all.

I know I’m reaching but I would hope that they would at least think that Radcliffe and co have behaved poorly.

I’ve seen Lucy Mangan like feminist tweets.

And I think Caitlin Moran is a coward. She is talented and funny, and I have previously bought her books, both for myself and other people. She is also bright enough to work out a way of saying something.
I am so, so disappointed in her.

I do think less of anyone who repeats the TWAW slogan, it just sets off the borg alarm in my head. I try to be reasonable and patient, after all if you really do think TWAW then you just haven't yet thought it through to it's inevitable circular nonsense. Waiting for people to peak and catch up is just part of life in the face of controlled social media propaganda now.

when you say 'turning on' him- do you mean like people turned on jkr- threatening to kill, rape, choke her and burn her books or do you mean people have just expressed disappointment with his views?

So hang on, you're turning on Stephen King because of his views on gender identity, even though he stuck up for JK Rowling and supported her views on violence against women?

I said this on the SK thread, but David Baddiel has retweeted JKR again this evening.

If TWAW why are they 'trans'. If they literally are women what are they transing from or to? Makes no sense. Why can't trans people be trans and proud of it rather than trying to force people to repeat something that doesn't make sense over and over.

These days it's basically code for 'stop abusing me on twitter'.

So disappointing urgh

And JKR has returned the compliment!
I've always revered @StephenKing, but today my love reached - maybe not Annie Wilkes levels - but new heights. It's so much easier for men to ignore women's concerns, or to belittle them, but I won't ever forget the men who stood up when they didn't need to. Thank you, Stephen.

twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1277323348255506432?s=20