Priti Patel

@mungrymutt, they might well do now but I don't think so when Priti Patel was growing up, the assuming all muslims are Pakistani's and all Asians are Pakistanis is a fairly new thing. Well it is to me, I grew up in a very multi cultural area and the Indian/Pakistani/Arab and Hindu/Sikh/Muslim communities were quite separate and distinctive maybe less so now.

But if you are right then if Priti Patel's male relative were being wrongly profiled as Muslim terrorists would it be reasonable for Diane Abbot to say, "Well I'm BAME and I don't have that problem." The dumping of anyone with a slightly different complexion to native British into one group is ridiculous. I've heard people say, "Well Boris can't be prejudiced as he has Patel and Sunak in his cabinet." So two British born people whose parents came from East Africa and grandparents came from India proves he isn't prejudiced against anyone? He could still be prejudiced against West Indians, gypsies, Martians or whatever.

I'm not keen on the BAME label for that reason.

@1forsorrow I think that's a slippery slope. Do Indian men not get conflated with Pakistani men & get racially profiled & seen as terrorists?

The Daily Mail has been very, very hostile towards immigrants and I felt uncomfortable reading her DM article. It feels like she is being used as a political tool to distract from other issues at the moment. I dont know much about her but how constructive has she been towards issues such as Windrush etc?

She was returned to ministerial office because she's a loyalist, which Johnson prioritised over experience or competence. And she has plenty of company there.

Assuming all BAME people will have the same political opinion is a bit like assuming all BAME people will have the same experience of racism.

Michelle Obama was likened to a gorilla by some in the USA, I don't think that is as likely to happen to an Indian woman as it is to a black woman. Young Indian woman are often considered very beautiful by the standards of white society, black woman often get ridiculed for their features e.g. my daughter (mixed race) was called nigger nose at school, a beautician told her that she had very big lips (ha very popular now but not so much 20 years ago) long straight glossy hair is something many of us would love, Afro hair isn't so popular. Many black/mixed race women (and some men) change these features to fit the conventional model, hasn't Meghan Markel had her nose done and she straightens her hair. Of course lots of black and mixed race women are very attractive but isn't it sad that so many feel the need to have to fit the "white" stereotype of beauty by changing these things.

Indian friends have told me there is definitely a colour prejudice in much of Indian society, Priti Patel did well by that standard as she is fair skinned, apparently much favoured in Indian society and my friends have told me it will be something that is commented on when a baby is born or when a marriage is being considered e.g. a girl/boy being told to consider that their prospective partner is dark and think of the children.

Priti Patel was also lucky to grow up in a family that did well financially, they owned a chain of shops.

Indian and East African Asians generally attain more at school, tend to be better off financially, are less likely to be profiled by police. So no I don't think Priti Patel can tell black women about the prejudice they experience. Her experience is hers but it is likely to be different.

Priti Patel makes the point that assuming everyone who is not white has identical political opinions is in itself racist. She speaks about the UK as a country of freedom and opportunity when her family was expelled from Uganda. This causes such cognitive dissonance in those who can't comprehend that it's possible for people from BAME backgrounds to have different political views and to view the UK positively, that she is accused of not having an Indian heritage at all. It's illuminating that some of those happy to give a pass to the racist abuse of Priti Patel are middle class, white Guardian readers. Who consider themselves 'progressive.'

^they are trying to silence me because I don't conform to their version of what it is to be an ethnic minority,' she seethes. 'They think they have a licence to speak for everybody from an ethnic minority community.'That is not the case. It is simply not the case. We're all different. We're all individuals. What they are saying is racist in itself, and I don't think we should lose sight of that.'
'They' are the 31 MPs — 'Left of Left of the Labour Party more associated with Jeremy Corbyn,' says Priti — who have sent a vile letter accusing her of 'gaslighting' others from minority communities after she spoke about her own experience of racism earlier this week^

I was referring to the whole democratic process. There will have been a whole bunch of Oxford Old Etonians lining up for Priti's safe seat. And plenty on the party wanting to be Home Secretary.

She is there because they think she will appeal to Tory voters including the Red Wall voters who feel ignored by Labour. Some of those will be BAME.

Part of the reaction to her is because she's a woman, but part is probably because she is a threat. As she is an outlier, not one of Boris' boys, the hope will be that she can be toppled.

I don't know why the party chose her over whoever the alternatives would've been for that seat, but I was responding to the point about why people voted for her. Any candidate winning a very safe seat doesn't really tell us much about them in our political system, when that same candidate would struggle to avoid losing the deposit if run in one of the constituencies where a rival party has a 20k majority.

But she has also made headway in a parliamentary Conservative party, many of whom were elected to very marginal seats. They must think she is what their voters want.

(I would add that she seemed to be a surprise choice for many Conservatives. The Tories have always had their right wing but few make it through to the front benches.)

PP is who she is. People voted for her. Why did they vote for her. That is the question that needs to be asked?

In her constituency, whoever the Conservative candidate was would be elected. Witham is a spectacularly safe seat. There are dozens, if not hundreds of seats in the UK where the electorate would probably choose a goldfish if it wore the preferred rosette, and those results never tell us anything much about the successful candidate.

For anyone who is interested in her background
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8416055/PRITI-PATEL-reveals-outrage-boarding-Churchill-contempt-rioters-thuggery.html

Daughter of a Norfolk grocery shop owner.

Thatcher was the daughter of a Grantham grocery shop owner.

The Tories have always had their non public school representatives, thank goodness. These are more likely to be conviction politicians, wanting to change things, rather than politics being one of several professions you might feel entitled to join. Question is are women entitled to have convictions that others don’t share? And are BAME people allowed to have beliefs that appear to reflect the UK environment they grew up in, rather than their ethnic origins.

I agree with the general consensus. I detest Patel's politics, as well as her delivery, but she is a victim of both sexism and racism. Left or Right women don't escape this shit.

Regarding the interesting phenomenon of immigrants whose families have experienced hardship and discrimination, who then go on to support anti-immigration policies once successful, I think joining 'the establishment' is a protection strategy. Supporting/advocating these policies won't help others from similar backgrounds but on an individualistic level it solidifies their own status/belonging within the group. If you can't beat them...

[quote BelleHathor]This video made me laugh regarding the white privilege narrative
m.youtube.com/watch?v=juQLifY4l_0[/quote]
Omg what a burn!!!!!!!! 😂😂😂

The idea that Indian people should all have the same beliefs is as absurd as the idea that women should all have the same beliefs. Doesn't it call come down to othering people by refusing to see them as individuals in a way? It isn't any more acceptable when coming from people who're theoretically on my side politically (in this case that patronizing letter Patel got from some Labour members), if anything it just makes me feel like I can't trust them to take me seriously if and when I disagree with them either (which has indeed turned out to be the case).

Normally can't stand Patel (seems to revel in the law and order type vibe) but very sympathetic with her this time.

Politician told her she doesn't understand protests against racism, she says she understands racism very well and gives succinct but powerful account of her experiences. 30 politicians write her a letter saying she's wrong. It is the left wing thought police and they do this to women and people of colour more than white men. Obvious parallels to Trevor Phillips and JKR.

Even though I can't stand a lot of what Priti Patel has done and said (death penalty - albeit back-tracked, trying to carry out off-the-books negotiations in Israel without the knowledge of her officials or her senior minister, the Foreign Secretary, standing by the whole "hostile environment" crap, etc. etc.), yes, I absolutely think she's on the receiving end of both sexism and racism.

The "yes you're from an ethnic minority, but you're doing being a member of that ethnic minority the wrong way" is very reminiscent of the sort of people who try to tell me I'm doing feminism wrong, or even worse, doing woman-ing wrong.

(Total aside, but @1forsorrow do not ever go to sporners' corner on this site! )

Oh no, I went to look at the link and got a horrible advert for cleaning wax out of your ear. It wasn't pleasant.

The left is rather bizarre in its view that all non white people have to be poor and suffering under capitalism. It ignores the fact that Harvard set up a selection process to downgrade Asians because they were exceeding their ethnic "quota" and outperforming white youths, and young people from China and nearby countries moving to the UK do really well academically and in competitions like the BBC's Young Musician competition.
Trevor Phillips was taken to task for wanting to look at why certain groups do so badly and wasn't wanting to write it all off as white racism as he saw some non white groups were thriving.

This video made me laugh regarding the white privilege narrative
m.youtube.com/watch?v=juQLifY4l_0

There was a similar incident with Kemi Badenoch who was told last week that she was not allowed to think Britain was one of the best countries in which to be from a minority ethnic group.

I'm not surprised. I've lived in Kuwait and India, and I think Scotland is the least sexist and racist place to be compared to them and I'm glad I live in the UK. Clearly I need to be re-educated.

Migrants and minorities who seem to have made a success of themselves do appear to be disliked by the Left in general. It doesn't fit in with the poor, downtrodden and oppressed narrative. I find people from those backgrounds also tend to find the Conservatives more appealing politically due to the angle of hard work, personal responsibility, making something of yourself in spite of the odds, importance of family and respect for law, order and fairness etc that are familiar themes in traditional Conservatism.

The simplistic narrative of white = privileged and not white = oppressed doesn't work in their case, hence the insults.

While recognizing, I mean.

I'm not sure why people can't disagree with Priti Patel's politics (which I do) without recognizing that the way she's being treated both in the media and by other politicians is heavily influenced by both sexism and racism. Nor indeed do I understand why people who would generally consider themselves to be aware of both sexism and racism would have expected otherwise.

It's really not on to decry either of those things in general but then make exceptions when you dislike the target, not only because it's wrong in general but because the splash damage inevitably hits people other than the intended target.

Surely a better example of this is Theresa May? Priti Patel is vile, almost as bad as Dominic Cummings, only she faces much more abuse for it and he seems to get away Scot free. However, Theresa May was treated appallingly, gets destroyed for her “atrocious” Brexit deal, yet when Boris Johnson copies about 95% of it and it’s revealed the country would be even worse off with his changes it’s a stroke of genius apparently.