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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Caitlin Moran

103 replies

Korimiko · 12/06/2020 11:46

Thinking she ‘might’ be with us.

Check her reply to Dr Jess Taylor. Soz, not up to screenshooting at the mo).

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Carrotynose · 12/06/2020 13:25

Yes, absolutely.

ScrimpshawTheSecond · 12/06/2020 13:15

I can't, in all honesty, blame a woman for staying silent on this issue. Look at the state of the abuse JK Rowling has had!

I am more furious about those who try to maintain the pretence that they are standing up for women or feminism while keeping their dainty hands clean by failing to mention JK Rowling's name. The fact that very influential, well known people see fit to criticise the Sun's front page - demonstrating that they know full well this debate is going on, and the fine detail - while still staying silent on the matter of JK's historic abuse, and the current abuse she's on the receiving end of, is pretty eloquent.

They have stood by in tacit approval while JK has been subject to a deluge of rape & death threats.

They condemn the Sun, a pretty safe target, but have not given a whisper of support to JK Rowling or any of the other women who have spoken out after their experiences of dv, abuse, or intimidation. They have shown their true colours, in my view. Willing to speak out in the abstract, parrot any idiotic mantra you like if it has no effect on them. Not willing to lend a word of support to a woman who is brave enough to share her history.

It stinks of the usual stigmatising of women who are on the receiving end of violence. Desperate justifications for how the women are complicit. Desperate explanations of how they deserve the abuse.

I suppose in their view, a woman's really asking for it, if she dares to voice a wrong opinion, isn't she? I mean, women have been trying to raise these issues for years and have had bomb threats, rape threats, death threats, punches, attacks. None of these attacks have been condemned, because the narrative is that the women's views are so apparently abhorrent they don't deserve to be safe.

Women's Place is 'a hate group', therefore it's perfectly acceptable to thump the windows of their meeting room and terrorise the women inside. Julie Bindel is a T*, therefore it's perfectly acceptable to try and physically attack her. Karen White was an anomaly it's really hateful to even raise the subject of. How many other women have been hounded out of jobs, off social media, out of publishing? Has anybody ever asked what women in prison might think about these things? Would anybody listen? What about schoolgirls who are not allowed to question a male-bodied child sharing their changing room? Female rugby players who get 'folded like a deckchair'? Nah, these are all just bigots, aren't they. They don't deserve to be allowed to speak. They don't deserve to be safe.

DOES ANYBODY SEE THE PATTERN YET?

Women in the past few years, who have had the temerity to want to meet up to even discuss these issues have had to DO IT IN SECRET. FFS. If that doesn't tell you something about the state of the debate, then you are lost.

Destroyedpeople · 12/06/2020 13:15

Oh please she is not that well known that she wd have to change her look. She is not Madonna ffs. She used to write crap about the town I lived on. ...

Fanthorpe · 12/06/2020 13:07

I was confused by the photo gurning until I watched her chatting with Sally Hughes and wondered if she did it to avoid being recognised in public. Her non-gurning face wasn’t commonly seen until recently.

Destroyedpeople · 12/06/2020 13:05

Oh the ridiculous facepulling and the docs and shorts student style combo.....Yeh Caitlin grow up. I bet Hadley doesn't dress like that. ..Grin

Lordfrontpaw · 12/06/2020 13:01

I assumed she wasn't.

I'm sure shes never got over the fact I refuse to have 'her' in the house. I am prepared to be proven wrong, then she will be my BFF but only if she stops gurning in every photo (you aren't a teenager any more).

RuffleCrow · 12/06/2020 12:57

No, she's desperately trying to appear younger and cooler than she is, so whatever her actual views she'll toe the woke line.

Fanthorpe · 12/06/2020 12:55

I’m not convinced, I think CM staying relatively quiet is more about remaining popular, she has teenage daughters so I imagine she’s rather constrained.

I always looked at how media blue ticks conversed with Deborah Orr as my weather vane, but now she’s gone it’s harder to tell.

ThinEndoftheWedge · 12/06/2020 12:48

I’ve been critical of CMs hypocritical stance on this issue on this board before - however champagne is on ice ready to open for CM if she supports JK...

HF - love her!

Destroyedpeople · 12/06/2020 12:47

Oh I like Hadley Freeman.....into fashion but no airhead that's for sure...

Korimiko · 12/06/2020 12:44

Hadley is a Pankhurst. She is the bravest of the brave

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HandsOffMyRights · 12/06/2020 12:38

I live in hope, although she blocked my GC account on Twitter.

She's friends with Hadley Freeman I think.

Korimiko · 12/06/2020 12:30

Caitlin Moran is a thoughtful person. Everyone is welcome to change their minds. Her tentative steps into supporting a gender critical tweeter is brave. I have always admired her writing to the hilt...even when I have disagreed with some of the stuff she has said. I don’t need to agree with everyone I admire all of the time. It has never stopped me reading anything she puts on the page, because for the most part, she speaks to my soul. And when she says stuff I may not be into, I skip over it, because the good stuff she says is too good to ignore. I’m tired of cancel culture. Caitlin has done a small but significant thing tonight. I’m grabbing on.

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SunsetBeetch · 12/06/2020 12:19

Well, we can certainly hope!

Destroyedpeople · 12/06/2020 12:19

She is probably reading this thread....I suppose everyone can change their mind but she has been pretty vocal in her support for transwomen being 'real' women......perhaps she has sensed a change in direction and is changing her tune accordingly . That is how it seems anyway.

Korimiko · 12/06/2020 12:14

That was 2012. Eight years on and we’re in a misogynist shit storm. Even the thinking libfems will be being peaked right now (the ones without the lobotomy scars that is)

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aliasundercover · 12/06/2020 12:13

... of course people can always change their mind when presented with new evidence, and that link is from a few years ago.

aliasundercover · 12/06/2020 12:10

Caitlin Moran, whose 2012 book How to Be a Woman has already become a central text of a certain strain of feminism (and who has been criticized herself for using the word "tranny"), says, "Someone saying to a transgender woman, 'You're not a proper woman because you weren't physically born a woman' is like someone saying to me that I'm not a proper woman because I've had an abortion

"As far as I'm concerned, everyone's welcome in the Lady Party," says Moran. "Pull up a chair."
www.buzzfeed.com/annanorth/why-feminism-cant-afford-to-ignore-transgender-wo

Seems pretty clear

Korimiko · 12/06/2020 12:01

Like me. Like most of us.

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ValancyRedfern · 12/06/2020 12:01

I think she is 100% GC but also 100% too scared to say so. Like a lot of people.

SunsetBeetch · 12/06/2020 12:00

That's not really 'with us' as being gender critical though is it? Jameela Jamil also said she'd read Dr Taylor's book.

Collidascope · 12/06/2020 12:00

She seems to have been pals with people like Janice Turner for a while. I think she probably just wants to keep out of it but certainly isn't up for pariah-ing the women who are gender critical. That seems cool to me. Even if she disagrees with their stance, she doesn't brand them transphobic bigots.

Korimiko · 12/06/2020 11:58

I’m not out in the open. Why should Caitlin be? We’re all fecking terrified of the stasi. She has taken a huge step IMHO

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Destroyedpeople · 12/06/2020 11:57

I don't know she does just blither a lot of nonsense in order to pay the bills. Not that I blame her but some of the total rubbish she spouts is amazing. Therefore I am not sure that I would set much store by anything she might say.

BacklashStarts · 12/06/2020 11:55

Surprising! I think Caitlin is probably GC but she’s also right-on and I think she’s struggled to reconcile those in past years.