Caitlin Moran

I like CM and it'd be great if you could be a high profile woman writer without people bringing your clothes or face into it.
I admit I was put off her for ages just due to the title "How to be a woman" which just irritated me inexplicably. I do think she's very unlikely to be out and proud gc, but I wonder if she'll come out with enough harmless comments to feel the ire of the TRAs, who won't ever forgive, and have to apologise for wrongthink.

I've changed my mind on this as I've learnt more almost all of us have. I was very definitely in the Trans Ally camp once. I look back and wince at how naive I was.

I didn't write anything publicly to backtrack from and I'm only GC with family ATM as I'd have to wave my career goodbye

I read that book back in 2012 when it came out. I don't specifically remember that quote but it didn't really register with me at the time as an issue.

I think 8 years ago most people thought that trans was transsexual and that invitation to the lady party meant a bit of a chat in the lady's room before back to work with someone who at least attempted to pass. I had no problem then with "rose" having an invitation to that lady party and I think in most case most posters here wouldn't either.

The "lady party" in 2020 though is now an invite to get your dick out in the gym because it's a lady dick. With Bob from accounts who has a ZZ top beard.

I am.going by the pic in the Times .....

Oh don't try and patronise me. 'Silly and shallow '? Right so a bit like Moran's books then? Yes I have read them. And I don't see why writing a book means you don't have to act like an adult.

This however was before things really kicked off and I 'educated' myself.

Then that would make you very silly and very shallow judging a person on the way they pose for photos and not the content of their articles and books.

FWIW though I've just google imaged her to check out these mad teenage clothes I've missed that she's been wearing and nope, not a one. You're either out of touch with adult women or teenagers. One or the other.

Sorry but if a man pulled silly faces and wore teen clothes at the age of 45 I would also say something.

However, when the tide does turn, writers like Moran should not be pushed to the front and allowed to take the glory.

Oh the gender-critical glory!

I also suspect that as her books were written years ago that her previous views were shaped by trans= transexual not trans=Bob from accounts wears pink on Wednesdays.

We don't all have the same views as we had a decade ago.

I sincerely hope that those of you who brought up her dress sense and actual face, don't consider yourself feminists. This is shit that no male journalist would face and no female journalists should face in the feminism section of Mumsent.

I also sincerely hope that you aren't calling for the end of "purity politics" on other threads while you defend anti abortion or anti gay organisations that also happen to disagree with the trans agenda. Caitlan Moran IS a feminist and a good writer and someone who manages to make feminism accessible to the masses and has been doing so since before it became trendy.

I disagree entirely with her stance on transwomen particularly in light of her books as every sexist experience she has suffered as a woman she suffered due to her female biology. But she doesn't have to be perfect and agree with me at all times for me to not be a dick about her. She merely has to not invite abuse onto another woman for having on opinion on feminism.

Which she has, just now on Twitter.

JK Rowling was regularly pasted for the exact same thing on this forum because she didn't have the "guts" to bring heaps of shit on to her family, when she backed down after the nowinfamous "middle-aged moment". Ironically by people on an anonymous forum be people who say they won't risk losing their jobs. When what she was risking was far more dangerousthan a job, it was risking being incredibly identifiable to nut jobs on the street forever.

It’s difficult for any woman in the public eye to be GC when it could result in you losing your career. That’s massive.

I’ve a soft spot for Caitlin and have been envious of her since she wrote her first novel at 15 I straight up don’t want to know what she thinks because I couldn’t bear it if she just incanted TWAW. I would be so disappointed and I’ve had a hell of a week. I know she’s a force of nature in the flesh (witnessed first hand in a queue for Elastica outside the Electric Ballroom in Camden) I’m glad she supported David Baddiel’s comment at least and now I’m going to stick my fingers in my ears, close my eyes and sing loudly until I’m strong enough to look at this thread again on Monday.

Most GC feminists are anonymous. I don't hold it against Moran.

However, when the tide does turn, writers like Moran should not be pushed to the front and allowed to take the glory. They need to remember that they weren't willing to do the slog. It's only fair.

Have tried to attach a screenshot, I hope it works. I'm glad to see she's speaking out against all the vile abuse that's been sent to J.K, at the very least.

Should have changed ‘gurning’ to face pulling, apologies.
She described how she uses a hair-piece and exaggerated her make-up in by-line photos and it made me think about why she always changed her features by pulling a face. I appreciate she’s not Madonna, but she is well known and might prefer to go to Sainsbury’s in a more low-key manner. I admit I may be wrong, as she might just really enjoy pulling faces for the camera!

omeone saying to a transgender woman, 'You're not a proper woman because you weren't physically born a woman' is like someone saying to me that I'm not a proper woman because I've had an abortion

Did anyone say this?

She's awful. She's always been awful- incredibly smug.

The ooh look at me, I'm mad, I am shtick is extremely tedious.

I don't know what the solution is. Like I said, I can't castigate a woman for not saying anything on the matter. It's not an understatement to say it's dangerous.

When we say a woman is brave, we don't mean it in a small way. Being doxxed could be quite literally dangerous. Women who have escaped dv will often have very good reasons not to want their name/location publicised, for one thing.

And we've seen what happened to Maya Forstater, Rachel Rooney. What are they guilty of? Wrongthink. Not threatening anyone, not abusing anyone, not sending violent imagery. Just saying words that people don't agree with. That's all it takes.

Police sent round for a 'hate incident'. Dead rats nailed to the door if you're a rape refuge that dares to say that you are female-only. And this refuge gets support from the council? No, they get defunded, tacit support of the TRAs that did the rat-nailing.

I wonder if a day's silence on Twitter would have any effect. If women just left Twitter in droves - wait, that happened already, didn't it? And nobody cared. They like us silent. They like us absent. They like us compliant.

Ok you are right about that.....just aspects her book really irritated me and I can't think of anything else to bitch about. Still it's sad that she cannot be honest.

Women's Place is 'a hate group', therefore it's perfectly acceptable to thump the windows of their meeting room and terrorise the women inside. Julie Bindel is a T*, therefore it's perfectly acceptable to try and physically attack her. Karen White was an anomaly it's really hateful to even raise the subject of. How many other women have been hounded out of jobs, off social media, out of publishing? Has anybody ever asked what women in prison might think about these things? Would anybody listen? What about schoolgirls who are not allowed to question a male-bodied child sharing their changing room? Female rugby players who get 'folded like a deckchair'? Nah, these are all just bigots, aren't they. They don't deserve to be allowed to speak. They don't deserve to be safe.

DOES ANYBODY SEE THE PATTERN YET?

Women in the past few years, who have had the temerity to want to meet up to even discuss these issues have had to DO IT IN SECRET. FFS. If that doesn't tell you something about the state of the debate, then you are lost.

Absolutely this.

And please, women, don't criticise Caitlin Moran on th basis of what she wears or the expressions she has in photoshoots. It's just wrong.

Scrimpshaw that’s a fucking fabulous post.
What else do the other commentariat need to happen before they will speak up for what’s right? All of their employers need to reiterate their comment to freedom of speech in safety, and specifically that this also applies to women of any age who dare to express an opinion..

Hm Yeh she would lose her column and income and probably receive death threats. Plus they are a fairly high profile couple and she has made no secret about where they live.

Scrimpshaw,
I am sitting eating lunch going "yep" , "yep" to every point.
Well said.