Do you think most people simply agree with radical TRA’s from lack of knowledge?

Twaw and “trans rights aren’t human rights” “black trans women’s lives matter” are useful to TRAs on twitter.

In the real world, sharing the actual definition of trans now being used on stonewall’s website, or showing Alex Drummond from the trans advisory panel can make people actually think and think maybe we should agree on a full sentence, maybe with clauses and semi colons.

And of course pictures. That wealthy white NZ weight lifter on the medal podium with the young, disadvantaged women of colour. Pips Bunce’s women’s awards. Plenty more, and videos, Hannah Mouncey talking about chicks and taking a place in the women’s team.

It shows that trans people do deserve the human rights we should all have, their lives matter, but show that a woman has lost a place in the team, in the awards.
A paragraph of competing rights are needed. Not slogans?

Don't forget it also makes you a TERF which is the modern day equivalent of witch.

I agree the TRA argument has mantras, slogans and insults that the GC argument simply doesn't.

Oldcrone.. I agree trans women are male should be the GC slogan, but people have lost jobs, lost friends and been hounded off social media for saying far less.

I saw a TRA on Twitter telling people he'd read JK's article so they didn't have to, and it was just as full of hate as they'd expect.

The TRA mantra "trans women are women" has the same soundbite feel that people can resonate with.

The closest that the GC side could get to is "most of the tine trans women have male genetalia" and it doesn't have the same ring to it.

What about "Transwomen are male"? Even TRAs can't dispute this, because only people born male can be transwomen.

Firstly, people dont understand the detail about transgender issues and therefore default to be kind

Secondly, we are in the era of soundbite politics , everything Boris says he reduces to a slogan:
Get Brexit done
Stay at home
Time to move on

I know he is the village idiot, but there are clever people behind him and clearly they think that this is what works with the public.

The TRA mantra "trans women are women" has the same soundbite feel that people can resonate with.

The closest that the GC side could get to is "most of the tine trans women have male genetalia" and it doesn't have the same ring to it.

I think alongside tolerance and acceptance, debate and debating skills should feature heavily in education.

Maybe as parents, we also need to teach our children these skills. I am guilty of swearing at the screen in front of my son when Boris comes on screen, but I dont really explain why.

EVERY TIME the link leads to some bollocks op-ed, even by bloggers with no expertise, or skewed studies and biasedly interpreted statistics.

Not so much lately, but up until about six months ago the thing people referred me to as the gold standard for popular authority was the edition National Geographic dedicated to gender.

I've seen some surveys though with young people who seem to honestly now have a different definition of biological sex that relates entirely to personal choice.

Yes, I've noticed this too. Because they have a different set of definitions they are structuring their thought in a different way. I find it easy to talk past them in a conversation.

DP (who is fairly well read and up to date with current issues) believed until recently that transwomen were extremely effeminate, non threatening gay men with severe gender dysphoria

I this this seems to be the case for a lot of people.

I also hate the whole trans folk being murdered left, right and centre because of women speaking words.

The other great thread points out that these transexuals are the ones actually being murdered in south America, in cultures that are also still very homophobic and have no other choice but to do sex work. The same places where females are also murdered in high numbers.

The white, opposite sex attracted, aggressive males with no dysphoria are the majority now.

When you point out the actual trans murder/assault figures for the UK compared to females, they say that's because trans population is tiny % compared to females.
When you point out that most of the victims weren't killed because they were trans but by their sexual partners (so not hate crimes) so just the same old male violence that kills females, they ignore it.

When you also point out if they use the % murder/sexual assault rates committed BY trans women in the UK population compared to females then it shows that this tiny minority has a rather disproportionate offence rate. But, ya know, can't mention that coz transphobic to point out male pattern behaviour.

Every week there are murders and rapes being committed by trans women around the world that get ignored or reported as women's crime.

I don’t want to depress you but teen ds told me this morning the new news he’d learned. “That JK Rowling was homophobic”. He doesn’t read a proper newspaper so this was from places like discord.

I'm so sorry but I actually lolled at that.

Yes, she's been sending Dumbledore to gay conversion therapy.

Yes, I think so for people over the age of about thirty.

I've seen some surveys though with young people who seem to honestly now have a different definition of biological sex that relates entirely to personal choice.

I do wonder what it will be like for those women over the next ten years when sexism rears its ugly head and it has fuck all to do with gender identity.

Some people simply don't want to know.

I've been 'defriended' by someone who I ordinarily view as intelligent and whose values I normally share this week because I upset her by pointing out that Daniel Radcliff's apology on behalf of JKR was misogynistic. She considers herself a feminist.

She didn't want to hear it. I got an I'm not listening your invading my 'happy place' response and then defriended.

A third party (another friend of hers who I don't know) privately messaged me to say that I was right (and brave! ) for pointing it out.

Some women, therefore , just do not want to know.

I managed to get his attention for long enough to explain things to him, and direct him to the actual source, what the real person actually said, but he’d seen the “phobic” lie loads of places. The lie is all the way around the world..

I don’t want to depress you but teen ds told me this morning the new news he’d learned. “That JK Rowling was homophobic”. He doesn’t read a proper newspaper so this was from places like discord.

I think it's a combination of a lot of the above, plus, I'm ashamed to say, indifference. Of the "I neither know nor care because it doesn't affect me" kind. I have 2 female friends who are engineers. (Not a couple, just met at uni and stayed friends.) They have succeeded in a male dominated work place and think if they can do it, so should everyone else. I bought one of them Invisible Women for Christmas and this did more to change their minds than anything I could ever say. They are finding their anger, but for a lot of busy women, they don't have the time or energy until it directly impacts them. Usually in a very, very negative way.

Yes

Many do. I think the point at which most people lose sympathy with the idea is when it comes to examining their own sexual preferences. People who are happy with the idea that gender matters more than biology have a tendency not to feel that way when it comes to who they let into their beds.

Where most people might not understand the issue, and might not know the facts, that is definitely changing.

You only have to look at below the line comments on every single article, or, if you've a mind, AIBU.

Unless newspapers specifically report all the facts, which would make rather dull reading I imagine, the information is going to get out there piecemeal.

And it is. There are a few posters on this thread who say they have changed their mind. This is happening, absolutely everywhere.

It's making people wonder what the hell is going on when someone like J. K. Rowling says sex is real, and is vilified. Once they realise what constitutes transphobia, the cat is out of the bag.

And that's often before they even realise the full extent. Before they realise the lack of surgery, AGP, that Stonewall has turned, there is no such thing as homosexuality, etc.

It takes time. But certainly, I have noticed a snowball effect happening.

It is hard not to agree - the oppression Olympics are too strong.

People feel sorry and just go along with it.

Interesting point OP. I have been looking at some of the resources on here and twitter that people declaring women being pro-woman as phobic haters.

EVERY TIME the link leads to some bollocks op-ed, even by bloggers with no expertise, or skewed studies and biasedly interpreted statistics. I actually am really keen to see all this evidence that these people are using to base their rather entrenched opinions. And it is not well structured, evidence based and it never is thought provoking and rarely balanced. Often, it is myths being perpetuated by the masses with absolutely no critical thinking applied.

Yes. Goosefoot made a good point recently about how most if us are happy to accept unexamined views if they are supported by people we think trustworthy - I think black holes was the example? - paraphrasing but the point was most people don't and perhaps couldn't follow the physics behind the existence of black holes.

It happens often on this board, people join a thread to berate posters for their "transphobia" and then post comments they don't realise would be read as transphobic by activists.

I have to admit I love it when that happens 😬

There was one a couple of weeks ago telling us how horrible and transphobic we were. They then said they didnt believe people could change sex. When I said that was transphobic they had to gall to get annoyed by that

Such as 'would you be happy with your teenage daughter sharing an open an changing area at be swimming pool with one of your male friends'

The only problem with this argument is that some people genuinely don't mind mixed sex facilities, or have the privilege of being able to only use mixed sex facilities where they feel safe.

For instance I am happy to get changed on a beach with just a towel. I have to apply a bit of analysis to realise that I have chosen to go to the beach and that I feel safe because I have subconsciously made a risk assessment of all the other people using the beach, and I am too far away from any of them to feel threatened.

If e.g. I relied on availability of public toilets because I had IBS, and just had to use any toilet regardless of who else was there, I would feel differently.

Yes
I think most people would be surprised to learn lots of trans women have a fully functional penis that they love using.

Wow! That ten year old in the news report. So brave, I doubt most 10 year olds would be able to react like that.

I've found a lot of people who say they hate transphobia, crumble if asked a specific question... Such as 'would you be happy with your teenage daughter sharing an open an changing area at be swimming pool with one of your male friends' or 'should people be allowed to play rugby with the opposite sex'.