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Original poster

I think trans women are women.....

135 replies

rabbitwoman · 11/06/2020 10:51

i think transwomen are women.

i think that women that are not transwomen need a special set of laws and rights to protect them because they are and have been subject to many centuries of oppression. They need laws and protections around childbirth and breastfeeding. they need support around menstruation.

women that are not transwomen will be susceptible to cancer of the overaries and womb, endemetriosis, and also respond very differently to some diseases and medicines

It would be very useful to put all these women who are not transwomen into one demographic category so that these issues can be directly identified and tackled.
this need not conflate with transgender rights.

Aslo, women that are transwomen will have been subject to a unique form of sexual abuse, harassment and prejudice. they will require specialist medical treatment to negotiate things like prostrate and testicular cancer within their own identity. they will respond very differently to some diseases and medicines.

It would be very useful to put all these women who are transwomen into one demographic category so that these issues can be directly identified and tackled.
this need not conflate with women's rights

i propose that for these purposes we could use the words 'transwomen' and 'women'

as well as 'transmen' and 'men'

is this wrong?

OP posts:
Original poster
rabbitwoman · 11/06/2020 12:02

However, I am becoming more and more concerned that thus us not a debate we are winning, because people just don't listen, do they?

Nothing wrong or transphobic or exclusionary about what JK has said.... But it's exploding around her and anyone who doesn't openly strongly condemn her....

I really think that it will take more sexual assaults, more teenage pregnancies at girl guide camp, more gold medals for men in women's sports before people finally say 'oh yeah...... Hmmm..... Why didn't anyone say anything, then?'

OP posts:
TyroSaysMeow · 11/06/2020 12:01

I see what you're getting at, OP, but you missed a bit.

What word are we to use to encompass both women and women-who-identify-as-men?

Because this:

women that are not transwomen will be susceptible to cancer of the overaries and womb, endemetriosis, and also respond very differently to some diseases and medicines

is equally applicable to "transmen".

Original poster
rabbitwoman · 11/06/2020 11:59

Ya, tongue in cheek it was.....

OP posts:
MyDogPatch · 11/06/2020 11:59

Transwomen are biological males who feel they should be women. They are not women in the same as women born with wombs etc.

I agree with JK. Live however you want. But your biology is fixed.

NaturalBornWoman · 11/06/2020 11:58

Am I the only one who thought the OP’s tongue was firmly in cheek?

i propose that for these purposes we could use the words 'transwomen' and 'women'

as well as 'transmen' and 'men'

I read the whole post and that’s what I took from it.

JellyFishSquish · 11/06/2020 11:57

Oh I see I'm not the only one

Subsume · 11/06/2020 11:57

I get you OP.

But I’m now so heartily sick that I’m afraid I struggle even with the term transwoman.

JellyFishSquish · 11/06/2020 11:55

Yes, Rabbit, I think transwomen are transwomen too.

But I'm not on board with your OP describing women as "women who are not transwomen". Was that accidental? trying to be funny? just making a point? Because I am not a subset of transwomen FFS.

Original poster
rabbitwoman · 11/06/2020 11:55

Predictably.

Being a bit cautious I was very very careful not to say I agreed with JK, and very careful not to comment on the subject of the transgender debate, but I just said that the debate needs to be more respectful, calm and reasonable. I was still berated for not disagreeing with JK!!

I also said that I was interested in protecting women 's rights and safe spaces and was told that segregating toilets into men and women was like apartheid and not necessary for safety.

It feels like quite a dangerous thing, just to point people in the direction of the debate. But I do know that possibly dozens of my friends have read it, not commented but have scratched their heads and gone huh? What's all this, then, what's going on? I never heard of this before, this is rhubarb!!!

OP posts:
bluebluezoo · 11/06/2020 11:54

*biological women.

testing987654321 · 11/06/2020 11:54

We don't need to say women that are not transwomen because no women are transwomen and no transwomen are women.

They are completely separate categories. I prefer women and "men who say they are women".

bluebluezoo · 11/06/2020 11:54

*women that are not transwomen

women that are transwomen*

Why are you defining women by whether they are trans or not?

Women are women. They are not “not trans”.

Trans people can do, dress, whatever they want, and should not be discriminated against for doing so.

But they are not women.

Justhadathought · 11/06/2020 11:52

I wanted to show support for the trans community and also demonstrate the need for separate demographic groups

Well transwomen can be called transwomen, but they are not women. This needs to be established as a first principle. biological sex is important and women require single sex spaces, services and sports for their own safety, comfort, dignity, and categories in which to excel.

I've always suggested that trans activists campaign for third spaces - but this is usually rejected as it 'others' them. But they are 'other'. They are other than women.

AnyFucker · 11/06/2020 11:51

I object to your "women who are not transwomen" definition because it centres men

"Women who are not transwomen" are just women

Transwomen are transwomen and have their own set of needs that should not displace women's

You are trying to simplify something that is already simple. It's not women that are trying to gaslight us all, it is men

MyBubblesBurst · 11/06/2020 11:49

Transwomen are not women. They are altered males

FourTeaFallOut · 11/06/2020 11:49

Women that are not transwomen? 🤣

Minty82 · 11/06/2020 11:48

Oh well done, how did it go on FB? Am still a bit scared to open that particular can of worms so publicly...

Justhadathought · 11/06/2020 11:48

I get you, OP. I'm not sure everyone is reading your post fully

I read it fully. And what i read seemed to be almost 'othering' women in their own category. Women are women. They are adult human females - even if they reject the word 'woman' . a transwoman is a male who identifies as a woman - whatever that means....... seems to be based on stereotypes and fantasies to me.

Original poster
rabbitwoman · 11/06/2020 11:46

But, forever hufflepuff

(known for their loyalty)

OP posts:
Original poster
rabbitwoman · 11/06/2020 11:46

(okay, so I suppose what I did was a bit cheeky and I apologise for the click baity title, I was trying out sone clever mental gymnastics, I am sorry if it fell short of the mark.....

I wanted to show support for the trans community and also demonstrate the need for separate demographic groups

Yes. I have posted JK's article to my Facebook page and yes, it has led to a lot of 'debate' and yes, I am a bit exhausted....)

OP posts:
stillathing · 11/06/2020 11:44

Op it sounds more like you think transwomen are transwomen? On this basis I agree with your post.

But I do think the class of adult human females, women, deserve to be able to name themselves and describe their experiences in order to be able to come together and fight the discrimination which you rightly note goes back centuries.

EdgeOfACoin · 11/06/2020 11:44

I get you, OP. I'm not sure everyone is reading your post fully!

Justhadathought · 11/06/2020 11:39

exactly the same as men

TinselAngel · 11/06/2020 11:39

I'd suggest that the category that we have for "women who are not trans women" could be called "Women".

Justhadathought · 11/06/2020 11:38

A woman is an adult human female.

A transwoman is not an adult human female, they are something 'other' whether that is accepted or not.

Being a woman is not an identity, it is just a fact of biology. And biology has quite powerful implications and effects.

I've never bought into the argument that women are exactly the same men, except with different bodily parts. Of course, we are all human, but we are also creatures of earth, and like most other creatures are dimorphic. Bodily dimorphism is instinctively registered.