I think trans women are women.....

It doesn't matter what word we use to describe ourselves as a group. The goal of the TRA is to appropriate membership of the group.
So we might as well fight for the word we've always used rather than engage in an ever shifting set of terms that confuse the general public.

We need to hold on tightly to the words girl, woman and women, I think. They define us and allow us to talk about the distinctive elements of our lived experience, like the impact of gender stereotyping in childhood (silly shoes you can't run in perhaps, skirts you can't climb or hang upside down in, or expectations of quieter more compliant behaviour). We need them to talk about our experience of female puberty, menstruation and the impact of the male gaze. Our experience of managing our fertility or infertility; the choices around motherhood or not, the experience of sexuality, of intimate relationships with others, our vulnerability to male violence and the way our lives warp a bit - or a lot - to lessen risk. We need those words to talk about bias, exclusion, sexism and patriarchy.

If we allow those words to be hijacked so they no longer define us, any other term we reach for will just as surely be purloined by activists who will not rest until we are a silenced, subjected, fearful underclass. If we accept the terminology offered us like scraps from what was once our own bowl, it will happen all the sooner.

"The problem with satire is that in this case the object is so completely nonsensical, so devoid of reasons, that your satire will be missed and people will think you are being entirely serious. They will stop reading, or get rightly angry, and likely miss the point."

Exactly this. I did not read to the end, I was so furious, so missed the satire.

has a transwoman ever claimed sex discrimination in a tribunal and won? I'd be interested to see legal outcomes.

@bluebluezoo

What you said. I am a woman. Woman. Lady burn female staying female I am a woman. There is no other type of woman. Only a biologically born and unaltered WOMAN. I agree with JK. am so tired that this is a ‘thing’. Women are women. No one else are women. Identify how you want, but you can’t be a woman if your not genetically and biologically a woman. That titles taken. Everyone else of whatever persuasion will just have to find another title to fit their circumstances.

I don’t understand. Why start with ‘Transwomen are women’ when they are not and you don’t think they are ?

I've no humour left around this shit, after a strike
Like Monty Python's parrot, my humour is deceased. It is no more.
I see these so-called satirical posts, and just think, "fuck off."

No, your OP makes it seem like transwomen are real women and women need some sort of complicated laws which would also fail to protect us even if they were implemented (no doubt there'd be great resistance because men and transwomen will both think first and foremost ''how do these laws to protect women affect me?'' and that is their preocupation first and foremost.

Men think of themselves first. transwomen think of themselves first. Women need to carefully guard the few rights to safety we have and not give them away merrily.

Everybody deserves respect. But that doesn't make you a woman.

OMG just read the rest of page one I replied in such a fury!!!!

Sorry OP

women that are not transwomen = women.
No other words are needed.

By saying TWAW, and in the rest of your ppost referring to "women that are not transwomen" you are actually stating that tw are the real women, and we are not-women.

Fuck off with that. (and this is the first time I have ever said fo on this board.)

p.s. Cis is an abomination

OP, you did what I think you intended, to prompt discussion but with a nice edge to it. . Loved the post, had to re-read bits to make sure I got it right but slightly reminded me of an Umberto Eco Misreadings😁

I think transman/transwoman perfectly acceptable, but I believe they don't like these terms. I think the idea (and someone has mentioned it) that you start off with Trans woman and then drop the Trans.

We've really got to get smart and look at what is going on underneath, yes there are some who are dumb as batshit but there are clever people running this show and we really need to get smarter, tougher and more organised.

Thanks OP

People please go back and read the OP.

The first thing OP said was:

i think transwomen are women. (OP said that in the title too!)

The first response to OP was the usual polite request for the definition of woman which seems like a reasonable request considering that word was being used a lot.

No reply tho - business as usual.

“I read the OP as tongue in cheek, and pro-women, Tbh.”

That’s how I read it.

I once did an office poll about using the word ‘Cis’. Not one person had heard of the term. (Never know whether it’s pronounced sis or kis)

How long before women get to be called non-transwomen?

The Transwoman in our office got married this weekend.
The Transwoman wore a Suit, the Bride wore a dress.
The Bride is now 6 weeks pregnant by the Transwoman.
HR are going mad bending over backwards for this Transwoman, who seems to be a male outside of work.
I kid you not, football and pub with the lads.

The Problem is, as Johnny Speight and Warren Mitchell found out with Alf Garnett, you cannot satirise Stupid.

People please go back and read the OP.

no-one has even bothered to ask bulls how they identify

And why is that?
Such a useful a and clever analogy you’ve come up with.

@rabbitwoman If you'd like to clarify your own opinion on the subject, you really need to give us all a solid definition of a woman, one that preferably doesn't stray into 1950s gender stereotypes.

(And I know satire isn’t strictly the right term, but it’s early and I haven’t had my coffee 😉)

*reason. I cannot stand the way this autocorrect thinks it knows better than me!

The problem with satire is that in this case the object is so completely nonsensical, so devoid of reasons, that your satire will be missed and people will think you are being entirely serious. They will stop reading, or get rightly angry, and likely miss the point.

Suggest adding a silent b?
Woman = wombman