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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Emma Watson no longer believes in women

416 replies

JGACC · 10/06/2020 23:01

Emma Watson has now tweeted in support of trans activists. I can't believe it.

OP posts:
merrymouse · 11/06/2020 09:25

Eddie Redmayne has two children. A boy and a girl. When they were born, they announced the sex each time

He also seems to have conveniently forgotten who gave birth.

Bellesavage · 11/06/2020 09:22

I found it odd that she was releasing speeches about women's rights and feminism and then took the role of Belle who gets locked up and gaslit by some weird narcissist in a castle Hmm

OnlyTheLangoftheTitBerg · 11/06/2020 09:21

So again in my naivety what is the solution? How do we respect everyone’s rights to feel safe in society?

TBH, at this point I’m not sure why it’s up to women to provide the solutions?

Problem: Transwomen claim to be unsafe sharing spaces with men because of male violence. Where that’s the case, that’s awful. I wish them every success in resolving that, whether that’s by campaigning for their own spaces or by educating men. Sincerely, good luck to them with that.

Obviously they can’t expect to take women’s spaces, because we have our own needs for some spaces free from all males (whether identifying as masculine, feminine or neither) so they need to come up with a different solution that doesn’t increase the risk of adverse impact on women and girls, and stop making it our problem to solve.

merrymouse · 11/06/2020 09:20

DaiJai, I agree with DickKerr's solution - a third space. This is already the solution used in many leisure centres because it enables families to change together. Some women don't like family changing rooms because statistically women are more likely to be assaulted in a mixed sex space:

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

However, I think they are a reasonable compromise if single sex areas are also available.

Are there any statistics to show evidence of shops and leisure facilities changing the safe spaces to mixed?

Schools are already taking away single sex toilet facilities because they have been told that they are transphobic.

www.tes.com/news/mixed-gender-toilets-have-negative-impact-girls

This is an example of men complaining because they were told not to use a changing room where bras were being fitted.

www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/18302422.couples-shock-treatment-glasgow-m-s-store-changing-room/

“I could have been a non-binary or trans person, they don’t know that.”

Marks and Spencer apologised and claimed:

“The fitting rooms are located within our womenswear and menswear departments and therefore are mainly used by customers of that gender, however, as an inclusive retailer and in line with most other retailers, we allow customers the choice of fitting room in respect of how they identify themselves.”

During a bra fitting a bra fitter will enter and leave the cubicle while the woman is in a state of undress.

These men did not even claim to identify as women, but M&S still apologised.

NellieEllie · 11/06/2020 09:19

Am so annoyed. For some reason I can’t get on Twitter - my screen keeps freezing - but only for Twitter. Jks piece was perfect. No reasonable, or even half reasonable person can say any of it is hateful. The others, those with no insight, no understanding, unable to see implications are just weak, cowardly sloganisers.
I detest this type of lazy, weak, go with the orthodoxy “thinking”. I’ve yet to see one person actually pick any one eg of what JK has said and formed a coherent argument against it. Hypocrites too. Eddie Redmayne has two children. A boy and a girl. When they were born, they announced the sex each time. If there is no biological sex, if it’s all about gender identity, how do they know? From the genitals? How desperately transphobic is that? They ALL live their lives acknowledging biological sex, then when asked whether they think its false, the unicorns and rainbows come prancing in.

happydappy2 · 11/06/2020 09:12

Formless? As in anyone can be one? Ah, I see....

ThinEndoftheWedge · 11/06/2020 09:07

How can Emma Watson be an ambassador for UN Women?

Easy - UnWoman think women are ‘formless’

ThinEndoftheWedge · 11/06/2020 09:06

Trans people are who they say they are

But - if a woman says she’s an -adult human female- she’s an exclusionary nasty piece of work and is inundated with condemnation, rape and death threats

Funny that.

I’m an astronaut and have written a very stern letter to NASA about their exclusionary policies

happydappy2 · 11/06/2020 09:06

How can Emma Watson be an ambassador for UN Women?

BashStreetKid · 11/06/2020 09:03

@Lordfrontpaw

And she is not a good actor.
Relevance?
thetoddleratemyhomework · 11/06/2020 08:54

Ha! Well I have read the essay and it is just so far beyond something that DR or EW could have written. Clearly, and I say this as an Oxbridge graduate, an Oxford education doesn't necessary indicate that you have much of a gift for critical thinking!!

DaiJai1066 · 11/06/2020 08:50

@merrymouse thank you for your reply. So again in my naivety what is the solution? How do we respect everyone’s rights to feel safe in society? Or is this the debate? That this can’t be done and that women who need a safe space no longer have one? Are there any statistics to show evidence of shops and leisure facilities changing the safe spaces to mixed?

ethelredonagoodday · 11/06/2020 08:48

I'm a lurker and regular reader on this topic, and also on twitter, but I'm compelled to post this morning about how absolutely exasperated I am with this. The JK Rowling piece was well thought out and reasoned and having read the arguments on both 'sides' I still think she's right.

Lordfrontpaw · 11/06/2020 08:46

And she is not a good actor.

Sailfin · 11/06/2020 08:42

She's smug as a bug in a rug.

DickKerrLadies · 11/06/2020 08:42

@DaiJai1066

Sorry if I am being naive and late to the game but can somebody please explain this to me. Are you saying that men are claiming to be trans to enter areas for women only for their own kicks?Or are you saying that all trans women and men should be segregated and use different changing rooms, toilets etc. I’m just trying to understand the whole picture.
Are you saying that men are claiming to be trans to enter areas for women only for their own kicks?

This is a tricky question to answer. The short answer is yes, there are cases in which this appears to be happening. However, we are told that transwomen are women if they say they are - so really these men are as much transwomen as any other transwoman.

The problem is that we're called transphobic if we say that they are men claiming to be trans yet we're also called transphobic if we say they are transwomen.

WRT spaces - my personal take is to keep single sex spaces and disabled spaces (ideally increase those) but to add another space which would be entirely unisex. This would not just be for trans people, but would also accommodate people who identify as non-binary, fathers with daughters, mothers with sons and all those people who say they don't care who they are sharing a toilet with.

merrymouse · 11/06/2020 08:38

Are you saying that men are claiming to be trans to enter areas for women only for their own kicks?Or are you saying that all trans women and men should be segregated and use different changing rooms, toilets etc. I’m just trying to understand the whole picture.

Under self ID 'sex' and 'trans' have no meaning. It's not even a question of pretending to be trans. If trans has no meaning anyone and everyone is trans and all spaces are mixed sex. The problem is not just that men will actively try to abuse women, but that women sometimes need access to single sex spaces because they are victims of trauma. Even a well meaning man who seems to pose no threat will be a problem.

Or are you saying that all trans women and men should be segregated and use different changing rooms, toilets etc.

I believe that in the vast majority of cases sex is completely irrelevant, but there are some situations where women are vulnerable and need access to single sex spaces e.g single sex rape crisis services.

You can argue all day about whether toilets should be single sex or mixed sex, but the focus in the UK is changes to legislation that would make it illegal for any space or service to be single sex.

Lordfrontpaw · 11/06/2020 08:35

I just had a look at Watson’s twitter - wall to wall everyone’s rights - apart from women.

Typical bubbled Hollywood luvvy.

OldCrone · 11/06/2020 08:28

@LemonadeAndDaisyChains

What has Emma Watson said about the abuse that was directed at JK Rowling?

Don't want to be one of those on here who says "do your own dirty work, you can find it for yourself!"
Gonna though.
Was about to answer you with benefit of doubt but saw your name and you're not new to these discussions.
It's the shit that's usually flung at me for just asking a question.

I couldn't find it for myself, which is why I asked. And I wanted to make sure that the reason I couldn't find it is because she hadn't said anything about it. I assume you didn't answer with a link to where she said how disgusting all the abuse is and how she condemns it is because she's said nothing about it. Which implies that she doesn't see anything wrong with hundreds of men telling JK Rowling to choke on their ladydicks and the other vile comments including death threats.

She is free to have her own opinions, but any decent human being would condemn such vile abuse and want to make it clear that they didn't agree with it.

TreestumpsAndTrampolines · 11/06/2020 08:23

Sex segregation was the norm, for the dignity and safety of women.

Quietly it has been moved to gender in many, many places.

There is no justification for gender segregation, unlike sex segregation.

Men have hidden in crawl spaces and septic tanks to watch women in toilets, invented fake arms, and mirror shoes to peer up dresses. Why wouldn't they do this? Not that that even matters - women have asked for single sex spaces to be maintained - why can't that request be honoured?

DaiJai1066 · 11/06/2020 08:19

Sorry if I am being naive and late to the game but can somebody please explain this to me. Are you saying that men are claiming to be trans to enter areas for women only for their own kicks?Or are you saying that all trans women and men should be segregated and use different changing rooms, toilets etc. I’m just trying to understand the whole picture.

DickKerrLadies · 11/06/2020 08:15

@ItsLateHumpty

If you know some decent transwomen, who you suspect are same-sex attracted, then no doubt they are what we would call transsexuals. Just wanting to get on with it under the radar. Unfortunately they have now been subsumed. Something which many of them predicted would happen, as stonewall widened the umbrella of what it meant to be trans.

And to add to this, those transwomen who reject what’s been touted in their name, or object to TWAW are also vilified, cancelled, and called truscum by TRAs, many of whom are not trans themselves.

A transsexual was taken to court last year for transphobia by a woman who is not trans.
TreestumpsAndTrampolines · 11/06/2020 08:15

DIDNT ASK FOR SAME SEX SPACES TO BE SHARED

TWAW means they are. Already. Hospital wards, Prisons, Domestic violence shelters, Gym changing rooms, support groups, the WI and Girl Guides. M&S, Top Shop changing rooms.

All of these pretend to be single sex, but when you read their guidelines, rules and statements, actually admit males if they say they are women/girls.

Pretty much everywhere has already, quietly become mixed sex, you just won't find out until it's too late.

teawamutu · 11/06/2020 08:14

*shits not white. Ffs.

teawamutu · 11/06/2020 08:14

@backseatcookers

Yeah, you’re right the actors are entitled to state that they disagree with Rowling.

However none of them have asked for the TRAs to stop abusing her. And in Radcliffe’s case, he had the audacity to apologise if JKR’s comments ruined people’s enjoyment of the books he had no hand in writing. It is not his place to do that and it is grossly insulting.

You know what would have been really brave for these good young allies trans people to do? To state, simply: “JKR is entitled to her own opinion. I don’t Happen to agree with her on this issue. But I think the abuse she is getting for her views is utterly unacceptable.”

This. This this this.

Yup. Sums it up. Virtue signalling little white.