Emma Watson no longer believes in women

There are girls in Connecticut who have lost their ranking in athletics because 2 boys identified as girls and ran in the female races.

If, as we are told, everyone accepts that sex exists, its very hard to understand how this case has got so far.

She's thick as fucking mince.

That would be the Emma Watson who was at Brown University and Oxford and secured a degree?

Really, slinging this sort of silly accusation against someone because you don't agree with their views doesn't enhance your argument.

Supporting TW doesn't mean agreeing with them about everything. I support women and I'm damned sure I don't agree with everything every woman thinks.

@blubellsarebells How fucking dare all these snotty kids that jk made turn on her like this.
How bloody dare they

urm JK didn't cast them. In fact she often said she wouldn't have cast Watson as Hermione.

Just because they acted out her vision doesn't mean they have to agree with her opinions

Of course you can but it doesn't mean other people won't attach connotations to the word woman and might object to being called one is what I mean. If they felt as such. I'm not saying I agree with TWAW, although i feel mean saying that. I'm saying you can't tell someone who is bothered by being called a woman that they must suck it up and accept it because it's a fact. The same way I wouldn't insist a man identifies as such because factually they are one. I support their right to identify as not a man - apparently everyone here also supports that because they support trans women. I don't know though.

I didn't say I had the answers I just feel sad that people on both sides are being hurt by this high profile fall out on Twitter. I wish it was acceptable to just have individual spaces or a third space too. I'm worried about the large organisations like mermaids too I don't understand how they are so successful. I guess a lot of politicians are like me and want there to not be the glaringly obvious conflict that there is regarding womens spaces. It's a shame it so often is falling in favour of those organisations though as if threats to women doesn't exist. I know there are trans people who are on womens side and who don't feel this is necessary at all.

I would wonder why you would go out of your way to be so bothered about denying people a courtesy that makes them feel more comfortable.

Because it impacts women in a negative way. There are girls in Connecticut who have lost their ranking in athletics because 2 boys identified as girls and ran in the female races. This matters in high school athletics because college places and scholarships depend on it. This is all over the US. Unfortunately then only people caring about it are the evangelical right so women are kind of screwed - certainly those girls in Connecticut were left without any support from decent normal people at all. Does that sound familiar to anyone who has studied women's history???

To the girl who should have taken first place and now hasn't - is that a "courtesy" she should give someone to make them more comfortable? is that the role of women?

If the "anyone who says they are a woman is a woman" shit hadn't happened, women would have continued being just fine with transwomen - welcoming etc. That isn't what is happening here.

from every study I can find, the majority of trans women are attracted to men

Going back a bit in the thread, @CloudyVanilla, but I feel I should point out to you that you seem to have been misled about this particular point.

The vast majority of men who transition late in life are heterosexual, and they have often been married to women and fathered children. Some people who fit in this category are Caitlyn Jenner, Jane Fae, Kellie Maloney, Debbie Hayton. Many heterosexual men transition due to autogynephilia, which is a paraphilia in which they are attracted to themselves as women, so they try to become the woman who is the object of their desire. Debbie Hayton has recently written about this as the reason for his transition (he doesn't object to male pronouns, because he knows he's not a woman).

I'm tired of having to underline, every time I talk about women's rights, that I also support trans rights. But for the umpteenth time, trans people should not be subject to discrimination in housing or employment, should be safe from violence and free to express themselves however they wish.

Those rights already exist and I am glad of it. My focus, however, is women and girls, and the trans movement makes many demands and entrenches many ideas which actively harm and undermine women and girl's place in our culture, and I will always have to object to that. I'm not someone who went looking for this. But when trans rights campaigners are demanding I choose to put women second, I will not do it. I'm as sad as anyone that so much goodwill has been lost.

I agreed with both JKR and the people supporting trans women

Unfortunately, the people "supporting trans women" would tell you these were mutually exclusive positions to hold. If you agree with JKR you are a terf.

Everyone arguing here started out at the 'just be kind' stage you are in. the 'well I have some concerns but I'm sure we can find a reasonable compromise' stage.

The people currently "supporting trans women" on social media are not interested in reasonable compromise. And anything else but complete capitulation and validation of all identities as the true reality, and recognition of sex as an outdated, unscientific and imperialist way of thinking is not enough. Anything less than that and you need to choke on a lady cock or die in a grease fire.

I lost faith in Emma Watson years ago. That said, I still have sympathy for her.

I remember how she was treated growing up - how utterly vile men were as they leered at a thirteen year old and counted down to the day she would officially pass the threshold of legal fuckability. I'm sure this informed her decision to become a UN Ambassador for Women later on, and I do believe her attempts to create a more feminist world were genuine.

I squirmed at that interview with Paris Lees, narcissist extraordinare, as what was supposed to be a piece about Emma's reflections on her life, as Emma turned thirty, became instead an instance of grooming in action, as Emma was subtly steered into making Paris the focus of conversation, and then not-so-subtly made to parrot Paris's views.

I'm disappointed in Emma, and won't be supporting any of her future projects. But I still hope she wakes up one day.

Sorry my last sentence should have come after "Natal women are happy with their own definition of gender and sex."
And "their" should be "our". SMH I'm typing too fast.

behaviour and dress, not behaviour and address...

I think for me the issue is you can't say on one hand "no one can tell someone else how to define their gender" and on the other hand, whispered under their breath, "except if that person is a natal woman"
Because that's the issue. Natal women are happy with their own definition of their gender and sex. That gender and sex defines us together, not singularly, as natal women, and confers upon us specific struggles that no one else experiences. Trans women grew up with male privilege whether they like to believe it or not. And it's just as wrong to take those away as it is to tell anyone else what gender they are.

you just cant decide for every single person that no other meaning is attached to the word.

Actually I think I very much can object when people insist that stereotypical concepts of behaviour and address must be attached to a word that applies to me.

Does it if the author also refers to women and girls? If they just said menstruators I'd totally agree.

Menstruators is such a gross word I don't want to type it anymore.

I would wonder why you would go out of your way to be so bothered about denying people a courtesy that makes them feel more comfortable.

It is a courtesy to be polite to an individual. However, using the word 'menstruator' rather than 'woman', when you are talking about an issue that affects women's rights regardless of whether they are currently menstruating is censorship of thought.

I just said it was sad the two things do conflict. I actually don't agree that everyone on this thread is supportive of transgender people, I don't think anyone is in a position to declare that either. Otherwise I would have not been met with the dissent and lectures over same sex spaces. I said it was upsetting for everyone and that I agreed with both JKR and the people supporting trans women.

Also with the menstruators comment, the problem is though that although you can define objectively what a woman is, you just cant decide for every single person that no other meaning is attached to the word. I totally get why that is negative and as said in my first post, I said maybe the solution is detaching feminity from womanhood a bit more. I still think, knowing the context of the word woman and knowing that some women are non binary or trans but are still women, I think it is unkind to mock someone over the use if the word menstruators. At the same time I get why it is uncomfortable to hear someone not wanting to be called a woman, to go against the fact, but that's not my reality, so it's not my place it tell those people they are wrong to want to identify otherwise. It doesn't mean I necessarily agree with it principle, but not because I think it's harmful. If that makes sense? Gosh I don't know I'm only up because my four month old won't sleep.

Maybe I should just give up and watch the Office.

The BBC newsbeat article about Radcliffe and Rowling was a dreadful bit of opinion writing masquerading as factual journalism.

This is a very serious issue but it does lead to comedy that writes itself.

mobile.twitter.com/VaginaDiamondz/status/1270354129668407296

05GreyGardens88

"You can't call people snotty, ugly or talentless just because they don't agree with your opinion hmm"
I didnt call her ugly or talentless. I called her a moron and snotty.
Shes not ugly at all, doesn't mean shes right.
Cant really comment on her talent as ive never seen her in anything.
Just think its a bit bad that all these young actors that have made their names off the back of jks work are now throwing her under the bus.
But you make it up as you go along, misrepresentation and lies are what your side are best at. Hth

@CloudyVanilla have a read of this.

4w.pub/non-binary-is-the-new-not-like-other-girls-and-its-deeply-rooted-in-misogyny/

Puts what I said in a bit more context. I'm surprised that you are confident enough to think you know what I do and don't know about a subject based on a single post on an internet forum.

But if you have a better explanation of why it has become so fashionable to identify as non-binary, perhaps you could share it here.

The BBC's reporting on this whole issue is spot on. Whoever wrote this article clearly understands what JKR was trying to say. This is the first article I've read that hasn't focused on the wrong part of this discussion. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53002557

Emma Watson has now tweeted in support of trans activists. I can't believe it

Emma Watson has always been in support of trans rights though?
Not seen the tweet but I'm not surprised in the slightest if she's recently tweeted so not sure why you can't believe it.

That should be too far.

Cloudy somebody on here crunched the numbers. Women are far more vulnerable to murder by men than transwomen in the UK. Transwomen offend at the same rate as men according to research.
If Trans people were asking for a safe space, we'd be on it. We were nice and supportive until we were pushed to far. Our safe spaces were hard won, we won't be guilted into giving them up.