The Body Shop has fallen

i feel really strongly that society should outgrow this idea of male/female as a binary.

You say that because you take for granted the rights that you enjoy because you live in a society where there is easy access to contraception and legislation to protect women's rights.

Look at the world - those things can be taken away.

'Interesting. Can the expectations of each sex not be expanded instead? From my point of view, that would lead to less harm.'

yeah i guess that's what i'm saying. i think expanding and blurring the ridigity of these categories that have done so much harm can only be a good thing.

'You can have a female (Sex) who loves dresses, make up and is a Child minder (gender norms).
Both of these females will be equally vulnerable to male violence and oppression because of their sex. They’re smaller, weaker and slower than biological males. This is a sex based fact which will not change despite their gender conformity or choices. It’s the reason females have historically been oppressed. Without this clear distinction, we have no language to discuss our own oppression.'

do you think all oppression of women by men is because of biological factors?

male (sex) people who want to play with dolls and wear dresses are also at risk of (male) violence. i see it as femaleness being the object of hatred and violence, not just people who have specific female physical characteristics.

lol i know the difference between sex and gender thanks. i'm pointing out that referring only to sex is not, as far as i can see, a very useful way of defining a person.
Do be so good as to go and tell all the fucking misogynists that, then. Women are discriminated against all over the globe on the basis of their biological sex. That's why feminism is, yunno, a thing.

Interesting. Can the expectations of each sex not be expanded instead? From my point of view, that would lead to less harm.

Men always know which "women" to go for when they want surrogates, huh? They ALL know what being being born female means.

Of course it's a sex is a useful way of defining people from a scientific point of view, just not a philosophical one! I could describe my cat in a biological sense if you were her vet, but it would tell you nothing of her complicated personality. But that's ok because whether she likes having her tummy scratched is not of interest to you when you're trying to weigh her to give her the correct dosage of medication. When Pips Bunce goes in to have his prostate examined on a monday, the fact that he wears a pink dress on a thursday is irrelevant. The phrase TMI has never been more apt.

i think woman-ness is a vastly complex and powerful thing

To be a woman, one is simply born female. No more, no less. We should be fighting against societal restraints traditionally placed on a "woman's role" or a "man's role" in society - that's what feminism does. Rather than saying that a male that likes pink, or princesses, or wearing traditional feminise clothing actually is a woman.

It's not complex at all. We all, deep down, know what a woman is.

Saesidetrains

“lol i know the difference between sex and gender thanks. i'm pointing out that referring only to sex is not, as far as i can see, a very useful way of defining a person”

It’s the only useful way to differentiate females from males in any meaningful way because gender is so ambiguous.

You can have a female (Sex) who wears masculine clothes, loves football and is a car mechanic (against gender norms).
You can have a female (Sex) who loves dresses, make up and is a Child minder (gender norms).
Both of these females will be equally vulnerable to male violence and oppression because of their sex. They’re smaller, weaker and slower than biological males. This is a sex based fact which will not change despite their gender conformity or choices. It’s the reason females have historically been oppressed. Without this clear distinction, we have no language to discuss our own oppression.

ceo contact

Found this. Not sure how accurate it is.

'Seasidetrains Actually, I think what I'm asking is how are your feminist goals advanced by promoting gender over sex?'

i think woman-ness is a vastly complex and powerful thing and if it expands to encroach into all kinds of spaces that were historically off limits to it, then women (both people born with female chromosomes, and people who embody qualities that the notion of 'being a woman' has traditionally involved) would suffer less.

i'm an academic, but not (at all) in the gender studies field. i've read some of the material but not much. most of my opinions on this topic have come from feeling my own gender identitiy evolve as i get older, and also from having kids and seeing how poorly the characteristics of 'male' and 'female' describe people in all their complexity.

The words male and female aren't supposed to describe them in all their complexity, they are just supposed to describe their sex.

lol i know the difference between sex and gender thanks. i'm pointing out that referring only to sex is not, as far as i can see, a very useful way of defining a person

Sex defines a person's sex, but we need words to be able to do that when we want to define groups according to their sex. Are you saying that you don't think it is necessary - ever - to be able to define a person or group socially or legally by reference to their sex?

i don't agree with what rowling says and think it will cause a lot of pain for other people

Ok, as long as you also think that what TRA's say causes a lot of pain for other people.

I've just asked them to close my account- they can keep their bloody £5 Birthday voucher

@Seasidetrains

What do you think sexism is?

It says ITS BLOODY NATURAL.

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/the-body-shop-jk-rowling-menstruation-period-shame-transphobia-trans-lgbtq-a9559721.html

No, it's still there twitter.com/TheBodyShop/status/1270773993109434373

Someone has linked the CEO's twitter handle now too: @DavidPBoynton but looks like his tweets are protected. Anyone know if he'll see things he's tagged in or not?

The tweet is still up. And a lot of bots must be on the case, as the number of likes has suddenly shot up. Interesting- makes you wonder how many other similar posts are artificially boosted.

Ignore me! Strong painkillers

Seasidetrains Actually, I think what I'm asking is how are your feminist goals advanced by promoting gender over sex?

So fucking snide.
I hope they read her piece and feel ashamed.

I think Body Shop have taken the post down!

Q

@Seasidetrains, the bit that you can't see that you therefore suspect isn't there is called the XX chromosome.

@LookAtTheCahhOlivahhhhh

Yes yes yes! Excellent post 💕