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Birth in a time of coronavirus

62 replies

CaraDune · 08/06/2020 22:23

It's that rare thing - an informative and moving Guardian article:

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jun/04/more-births-car-park-midwifes-experience-covid-19-crisis
(Heads up - contains very sad discussion of still birth Flowers)

I was particularly struck by this, though:
"The postnatal ward is a lovely place to be at the moment. The curtains are open, and women are helping each other and bonding in a way that we thought was a thing of the past. One of the things we will probably review is how often partners are allowed in. Now that is not happening, there is a spirit of female empowerment and togetherness. Those who have had babies before are helping first-timers with breastfeeding, for example. There is also the ability to share stories and to come to terms with your birth experience."

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Flubberworm · 10/06/2020 19:58

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AnotherEmma · 10/06/2020 18:40

Agree with this:
"I think it’s important that women who don’t feel safe around strange men are given the option of a women only ward, hopefully with adequate midwife and support care. But until there is sufficient funding to have enough support for every mother there should also be the option of partner-accompanied wards."

Also agree with OP. I think the numbers of women wanting a female-only space (ie feeling unsafe around men) will be higher than the numbers wanting a private space because they feel unsafe around unknown women. The former may justify a dedicated ward/bays and the latter may be accommodated by a private room when needed.

LavenderLotus · 10/06/2020 17:40

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Original poster
CaraDune · 10/06/2020 17:19

No, you misunderstand me. I'm discussing numbers and the way an overstretched health service might make best use of the limited space it's got while helping all women to feel safe and supported in that space. (And let me say my ideal world would involve private rooms for all and a hell of a lot more midwives and other HCPs so that all women and their partners were supported properly.) But we are where we are, with shared wards, usually in small bays of between 4 and 8 beds, generally (if my local hospital is any guide) with one or two single rooms usually held aside for medical need (more severe conditions, infection control, etc.)

Anyone who is in need of private space should get that - whether it be private space away from men they don't know, or private space away from women they don't know. It's just that the numbers are very different - of the women who have suffered sexual abuse (about 25% of us) there are a proportion who will find that the psychological after effects are such that they don't want to be around strange men at all, or in some very rare instances, around strange women either. The point I'm making with the stats is that at any one time you may well have several women who want to be accommodated away from men they don't know (enough to fill a bay of a ward) whereas - given what we know about the stats on sexual violence - it will be a relatively rare occurrence to come across a woman who finds having to share with other women is traumatising. And in terms of the logistics of organising one's hospital ward, this very rare (but still very distressing eventuality for the woman concerned) is probably best dealt with by giving her a separate room entirely.

Unless your point is that you are disputing the statistics on the male/female split among perpetrators of sexual violence (98% to 2%), and the fact that the majority of victims of sexual violence are women?

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LavenderLotus · 10/06/2020 16:39

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CaraDune · 10/06/2020 16:25

Flowers for your friend flubber. But it's worth remembering the stats - over 98% of sexual violence is perpetrated by men, and for instance for the year ending March 2019, Women's Aid states that the best estimate (CSEW data) shows 1.6 million women and girls experienced domestic violence. So your friend's experience, though horrific, I think is sufficiently unusual that it could be dealt with by a private room (most wards typically have one or two of these, and your friend would clearly have a priority need for one).

Male violence, sadly, is much more widespread.

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FlubberWorm · 10/06/2020 16:17

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CaraDune · 10/06/2020 15:33

I completely get why women want their own husband there. I also get (to a lesser extent) why some women, who've been lucky enough only to encounter "nice men" aren't bothered by other people's husbands.

But, for me it's one of those "no trumps yes" situations.

There are women who will be victims of DV, or past sexual assault. (There will also be women who are victims of ongoing DV, whose violent partners will be on the ward). There have been threads on this in the past with hair raising incidents (including one midwife who'd found a man raping his wife a matter of hours after she'd given birth). Not all men, obviously, in fact, mercifully only a tiny minority - but I still don't want strange male members of the public wandering round hospital wards in the middle of the night when I'm trying to sleep.

And if you bother to look upthread, you'll see several posters, myself included, saying explicitly that what's needed is more funding for the NHS, so that partners aren't required to cover up for the inadequacies of staffing. Better accommodation would also be nice. Someone even suggested the excellent compromise on a multi-bay ward of having some bays set aside for those who wanted their partners to stay and other bays set aside for those who wanted to be or were on their own (perhaps because their partner was at home caring for older children).

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Brandaris · 10/06/2020 15:26

@Pumpertrumper I actually agree with the ‘feminists’ as you call them. I think it’s important that women who don’t feel safe around strange men are given the option of a women only ward, hopefully with adequate midwife and support care. But until there is sufficient funding to have enough support for every mother there should also be the option of partner-accompanied wards.

Just removing the partners with no additional professional support given will lead to more experiences like mine.

RenegadeMrs · 10/06/2020 15:10

I am due to give birth at the end of the month. The good news is my local hospital are alloing birth partners on the post natal ward from 8am-8pm, which was the same as the visiting hours at a different hospital I gave birth in 3 years ago.

Partners are a must on post natal wards as there is simply not enough support avaliable otherwise.

I stayed 5 days after my first birth following a c- section. The only thing that got me through was my partner visiting in the day allowing me to shower and sleep. I was holding the baby all night as she was a newborn that wanted to held. I got no support and no sleep.

The thought of not having my partners support on the post natal ward scared me more than birth itself. I was planning on discarging myself as soon as possible.

I won't be surprised at an increase in ptsd in new mothers and I would expect a further decrease to those successfully breast feeding given the lack of post natal support avaliable at the moment.

Wecandothis99 · 10/06/2020 14:34

I would def prefer my husband- the Father of my child to be near me than some random women. I can get female empowerment from my friends and family when I get home!

FlubberWorm · 10/06/2020 14:23

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Pumpertrumper · 10/06/2020 14:20

@Brandaris

I’m sorry that happened to you, that’s very much my experience of postnatal ward but it feels as though ‘feminists’ on here would much rather over look, degrading humiliation and lack of support for women in their most vulnerable state of it means getting to ban men from another ‘women’s only’ area.

I’ve frequently seen ‘no men should be allowed to stay on post natal wards’ but it’s never followed up by ‘The NHS must provide adequate care instead’.

Sorry but unless you’re going to provide adequate care for me and baby DH is staying put.

rooarsome · 10/06/2020 13:56

I'm dreading giving birth in December if the current restrictions remain in force. In my hospital dads could not stay overnight, so when mine were born in the early hours he had to go home. I counted down the minutes until he could return in the day time to help me. I had to stay in for a few days with each and only managed because he was there to help. The midwives also took my first into the office for a few hours overnight as I was so exhausted and I will always be thankful for that!

AnotherEmma · 10/06/2020 13:44

Brandaris
I'm sorry that happened to you Flowers

EverythingBlue2020 · 10/06/2020 13:40

"But because almost all post-natal wards are multiple occupancy what you are in fact saying to all the other women on the ward is "you nowhaveto share overnight accommodation with unrelated males that you don't know from Adam." And this, I think, is very wrong in feminist terms"

You can close your curtain. You don't all have to see each other. I don't care about other males being there if I can close the curtain round and make a little bubble with my DH and baby.

ShirleyPhallus · 10/06/2020 13:36

I gave birth 2 months ago just as we went in to lockdown. I had an EMCS at about 5pm then visiting hours finished at 8pm. They changed the regs that day that dads had to go home instead of staying.

It was really bloody difficult. I couldn’t even lift my own baby, was sleep deprived and high on drugs and immobile from the section. The women on my ward were not the kind of people I’d have socialised with or had any desire to do given I’d just had my baby. I couldn’t have cared less if all the other dads were there, I really missed my DH and had to ring the bell for so much as picking up the baby.

I also felt terrible for him, he had a 3 hour baby he had to wave by to and go home on his own.

I certainly didn’t experience any women-bonding-female-positivity the article talks about

Brandaris · 10/06/2020 13:35

Fathers are used to relieve the pressure on midwives, without fathers there you would need a lot more midwives or support staff. The best solution would be as pp above mentioned to have the option of women only or women and partners.

DH was with me for most of my week hospital stay after birth, I was very very ill to begin with. This was several years ago. I was lucky that I had a private room, I doubt either of us would’ve been comfortable staying in a ward.

The one time he left for more than a couple of hours I was still physically incapable of putting my baby down and getting out of bed unassisted due to the birth injuries. I rang and rang the bell and no one came until I was eventually found sat in my own faeces crying and deep in panic attack. They simply hadn’t had a chance to get to me sooner.

I truly hope my experience is not being repeated, but with current restrictions I expect it is, to many women who deserve better.

AnotherEmma · 10/06/2020 13:16

"Having dads stay in is part of a drive to get dads more involved in looking after their small children right from the start."

It is no such thing. It's just a sticking plaster over the gaping wound that is the shocking inadequacy of care in postnatal wards. The NHS can't (or doesn't want to) provide more staff to care for the mothers and babies properly, so they let partners do it instead.

Original poster
CaraDune · 10/06/2020 13:00

@110APiccadilly

Having dads stay in is part of a drive to get dads more involved in looking after their small children right from the start. Which, tbh, I would have thought would have support on a feminism board.
I'd totally agree if there were the NHS resources for new parents to have a private room to themselves.

But because almost all post-natal wards are multiple occupancy what you are in fact saying to all the other women on the ward is "you now have to share overnight accommodation with unrelated males that you don't know from Adam." And this, I think, is very wrong in feminist terms.

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Caspianberg · 10/06/2020 12:55

This wasn't the case for me either.

Baby born 5 weeks ago at the height of quarantine. All mothers and babies were put into private rooms where I am, all the 2 or 4 bed rooms were also only allowed 1 mother and baby to reduce contact.

So I arrived Saturday morning, baby born in the afternoon. Dh had to leave soon after. I didn't even see, let alone talk to another mother over the next 2 days. Everyone was kept in own rooms (en suite).

I had an 'easy' birth, no complications and baby was fine. But It was horrible being so alone the first 2 days after birth. Midwifes only came in twice per day for daily check on baby, and if you called emergency button. So for me that was never as no emergency. But it meant learning to breastfeed alone, having no one to talk to unless facetiming DH, had to try and shower in between screaming baby. Still uncomfortable obviously after, but no one to help change baby nappy, bath him after poop explosion, bend down to get stuff from bags etc... I didn't sleep from the friday night in labour, until home Monday evening, as baby wouldnt settle without being held and I was alone to do that.

I checked myself out asap and it was far better being home with Dh to help. Meant I could relax knowing if I slept an hour or two someone else could watch and hold baby, dh could reassure me feeding was ok, get me drinks, change nappy and wind baby after i had been feeding him an hour etc, so I actually got 10 mins alone time to drink, pee, etc..

FlubberWorm · 10/06/2020 08:54

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1990shopefulftm · 10/06/2020 08:53

i'm due with my first at the end of October, and i m quite nervous about being stuck alone on a ward with no help as understandably the midwives won't be able to help everyone at the same time.

I'm 5 minutes away from the hospital so if I can't deliver at the midwife unit and end up on the ward then I'm going to be having a polite discussion about my concern for my mental health if I can't be discharged and about the risks of self-discharging baring in mind I'm so close if anything were to go wrong at home. I've lost a few relatives because the NHS couldn't help them so any hospital ward makes me quite uncomfortable really. I really can't see myself talking to other mums on a ward when i won't want to be within a couple of meters of anyone that isn't a HCP or someone I know.

110APiccadilly · 10/06/2020 08:38

Having dads stay in is part of a drive to get dads more involved in looking after their small children right from the start. Which, tbh, I would have thought would have support on a feminism board.

Lynda07 · 10/06/2020 08:30

YetAnotherSpartacus Tue 09-Jun-20 14:41:36
Yeah - I don't get why they allow males on the ward outside of visiting hours and certainly not overnight.
.......

I didn't know about it until I read on here. It has only been in recent years I think. Dads used to be with wife for birth and a little while after, then went home and came back at visiting time. Most mothers go home fairly quickly if there are no complications. I can't imagine a dad wanting to stay in a ward all night anyway with loads of other people they don't know and it must be horrible for all the other new mothers having strange men around, even well behaved ones.