Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Gendered Intelligence

38 replies

PetraDelphiki · 08/06/2020 19:04

So we had an email today telling us about the new RSE curriculum etc. I have asked the school who will be giving talks etc on transgender issues and it’s Gendered Intelligence (which I thought it would be)
I need to reply to express my concerns about GI:

Misrepresenting the equality act
Telling the girls they can change sex (girls school)
Pushing secrecy/safeguarding
Pushing the gingerbread person and make/female brains idea

I’ll do some digging on their website but any help would be much appreciated

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
XXSex · 15/07/2020 01:10

Place marking for updates!

DogFluff · 14/07/2020 20:03

@PetraDelphiki thank you for your PM. I replied twice via PM but it doesn't look like it sent. Sorry I'm not used to PMs. Thank you it was very useful x

DogFluff · 12/07/2020 14:11

@PetraDelphiki reading now, thank you Smile

Original poster
PetraDelphiki · 12/07/2020 13:51

I've PM'd you.

As a general update we got quite a positive response and have been invited in to talk about this further next term...so that's good.

OP posts:
DogFluff · 12/07/2020 13:01

@PetraDelphiki
hi, how did you get on with this? I am just starting on a letter to my DDs school, they have been Stonewalled so I am searching for more info.
(Have name changed for this as have already briefly emailed school and they are not happy with me questioning them on their RSE content!)

PetraDelphiki · 10/06/2020 15:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OneEpisode · 10/06/2020 14:39

Hi Petra i think your letter was good as is.

I don’t know you and your daughter(s). If this is a single sex school you could decide to focus on that alone.
The school is currently relying on the usual definition of sex and is preventing boys attending. This is permitted under the current Equalities Act. “Proportional means to a reasonable outcome”, something like that.
Gendered intelligence is a campaign organisation. One of their campaigns is as against those exceptions. 21 August 2015 in a submission to the women and equalities select committee. You might be able to find a direct source, I saw on Women’s place UK site.
If a child through their education could disclose different gender identities (so “afab”, then come out as non-binary, then come out as a transman, how would that child’s education be impacted if they had to leave a school segregated by gender identity? Maybe another option. Sorry.

Original poster
PetraDelphiki · 10/06/2020 13:08

Need to find a place where GI suggest that promising confidentiality is good...I’ll look but if anyone finds one please pass it on!!

OP posts:
Original poster
PetraDelphiki · 09/06/2020 19:25

aesop you might be right...just not quite sure what to cut and still make my point...suggestions gratefully received!

OP posts:
Aesopfable · 09/06/2020 18:27

I like your letter but I think it might be more effective if it were shorter.

OneEpisode · 09/06/2020 18:07

You Star

Original poster
PetraDelphiki · 09/06/2020 17:45

Thoughts appreciated!

OP posts:
Original poster
PetraDelphiki · 09/06/2020 17:44

Draft 2:

Thank you for confirming who will be providing training on gender identity. I have a few further questions about this and the other contents of the RSE policy.
As regards the policy in general:
• What measures are taken to ensure that the teaching of gender identity in RSE does not conflict with the rights of those with the protected characteristics of sex and sexual orientation? How will you ensure that the girls are correctly advised of their rights to single sex (not gender) spaces and activities under the Equality Act 2010?
• What measures are taken to ensure that the teaching of gender identity does not reinforce harmful gender stereotypes or otherwise suggest that boys and girls have innate personality differences? How will you ensure that the girls are not given any indication that a liking for STEM, or choosing to wear trousers, means that they “really have boy brains”.
• What measures are taken to ensure that the teaching of gender identity does not conflict with factual, scientific teaching of reproductive biology and anatomy?
• What measures are taken to ensure that pupils are aware that sexual violence (such as is routinely displayed in pornography or otherwise normalised as ‘fetish’) is not part of a healthy sexual relationship?
As regards the external organisation involved:
• By what process was Gendered Intelligence chosen to provide this content? What scientific, legal, medical, educational or other qualifications does the planned speaker have that makes them competent to Influence the girls’ social, psychological and sexual development? Are you aware that GI are currently campaigning against emerging government policy designed to protect under 18’s from making medically unnecessary irreversible bodily changes? Against policy specifically designed for the safety, dignity, privacy and equity of opportunity for girls - which are founding principles of girls-only schools such as *?
• By what process do you guarantee that their training and guidance meet the school's own safeguarding policy? In particular in regards to suggestions that students should be guaranteed complete confidentiality when disclosing gender identity issues – something which is never part of good safeguarding practice.

OP posts:
AlwaysTawnyOwl · 09/06/2020 14:52

This is an interesting experience of Gendered intelligence 'training' at a Russell Group University:-

"The content was as I expected: unscientific, fact-negligent, misrepresentative nonsense. The seemingly innocuous “non-binary” but wholly male presenting trainer, informing us that “they” decided to present masculine today to appear more “authoritative”, thus reinforcing regressive and demeaning gender stereotypes."

From:-

anglicanmainstream.org/standing-up-to-the-transcult-bullies/

Original poster
PetraDelphiki · 09/06/2020 10:25

Just popping out will post draft 2 for comments later - thanks for all the suggestions.

I think the outcome that I want is to be assured that the girls will not be misinformed about their rights under the law to single sex spaces, that they will clearly understand the difference between gender identity and sex (and that sex is immutable and determined at conception not randomly assigned at birth), and that they will not be brainwashed into believing gender stereotypes which are actually more enforced by the trans rhetoric that removed.

I'd quite like to ensure that the school promotes the same level of mental health care and support for gender questioning teens that they would for self harming or anorexics, rather than the GI policy of immediate acceptance and agreement...

Not quite sure how to phrase that but will ponder!

OP posts:
ScrimpshawTheSecond · 09/06/2020 09:24

It's an excellent letter, Petra. Generally, if in doubt I would err on the side of less information. Ask simple, clear questions, that works really well. It gives the reader space to really consider the question. Ideally, you will prompt the reader to do their own research and it's less likely to provoke a defensive response or overwhelm them with detail.

It's one of the things I find a bit difficult about the whole gender debate, there's so flaming MUCH to talk about, because we've not been allowed to discuss ANY of it, that 1. It's hard to know where to start and 2. It's hard to know where to stop!

Where did I read something about not trying to make more than three points in a letter like this, or did I just imagine it ... might be an idea, anyway. Personally I'd probably choose the three things that concern me the most and focus on them.

I suppose maybe a meeting with someone at the school might be a good next step? Then you could bring along more evidence to show them, if need be. Hopefully you'll have prompted them to ask some questions, too. Would it be worth stating clearly what you'd like? I'm not sure - but maybe worth even considering what your 'good outcome' would be and how you might get there - assurances that sexism will not be tolerated, that parental alienation will not be supported, etc.

Good luck.

Deltoids1 · 09/06/2020 09:13

I emailed my school last night to finding out what their RSE curriculum will be and if there will be external trainers. Thanks for the timely reminder.

ThinEndoftheWedge · 09/06/2020 09:12

Against policy designed to protect single sex spaces and opportunities? - specifically designed for the safety, dignity, privacy and equity of opportunity for girls - which are founding principles of girls only schools.

Original poster
PetraDelphiki · 09/06/2020 08:58

How about a second paragraph:

Are you aware that GI are currently campaigning against emerging government policy designed to protect under 18’s from making medically unnecessary irreversible bodily changes? Against policy designed to protect single sex spaces and opportunities?

You think remove the whole section about Porn/consent?

Also contemplating whether to add a link to this www.transgendertrend.com/gendered-intelligence-training-teachers-kiss-my-genders/ asan example of poor understanding of safeguarding/encouraging parental alienation ....or is that too much?

OP posts:
Original poster
PetraDelphiki · 09/06/2020 08:37

Yes all girls...

OP posts:
teawamutu · 09/06/2020 08:16

That is a very good letter.

OneEpisode · 08/06/2020 23:16

Hi Petra, sounds like this is an all girl school? I might focus on why this particular organisation, a campaigning organisation, which is writing to Liz T to object to emerging gov policy, and has only recently acquired charitable status, has been chosen to provide this particular educational strand, especially if it is general sex ed.
I might not include the last section in a general comms.

Original poster
PetraDelphiki · 08/06/2020 22:52

Gah I lost the breaks between paragraphs! Sorry!

OP posts:
Original poster
PetraDelphiki · 08/06/2020 22:51

First draft - possibly a bit wordy?

Thank you for confirming who will be providing training on gender identity. I have a few further questions about this and the other contents of the RSE policy.

By what process was Gendered Intelligence chosen to provide this content? What scientific, legal, medical, educational or other qualifications does the planned speaker have that makes them competent to Influence the girls’ social, psychological and sexual development ?
By what process do you guarantee that their training and guidance meet the school's own safeguarding policy, particularly with respect to guarantees that information about trans feelings will be kept secret. I am aware that one of the main tenets of good safeguarding practice is to never promise to keep things secret. Sadly I am also aware that many groups such as GI suggest that this should be an exception, causing parental alienation, prompting unhealthy dependence between the child and their adult “secret keeper”, and removing any opportunity for safeguarding leads to work effectively.
• What measures are taken to ensure that the teaching of gender identity in RSE or PSHE does not conflict with the rights of those with the protected characteristics of sex and sexual orientation? How will you ensure that the girls are correctly advised of their rights to single sex (not gender) spaces under the equality act 2010?
• What measures are taken to ensure that the teaching of gender identity does not reinforce harmful gender stereotypes or otherwise suggest that boys and girls have innate personality differences? How will you ensure that the girls are not given any indication that a liking for STEM, or choosing to wear trousers, makes them more “boy like”?
• What measures are taken to ensure that the teaching of gender identity does not conflict with factual, scientific teaching of reproductive biology and anatomy? How will you ensure that any discussion of medical/surgical intervention covers the many long term health implications of this - not least of which is infertility.

Considering the rest of the RSE policy and curriculum:
• What measures are taken to ensure that pupils are aware that sexual violence (such as is routinely displayed in pornography or otherwise normalised as ‘fetish’) is not part of a healthy sexual relationship?

  • what measures are taken to ensure that the girls are aware of their right to refuse to consent to sexual activity in all cases regardless of the sex or gender identity of their partners? In particular the right of any lesbian students to refuse sex with a trans identified male (ie a female presenting person with a penis)

Yours etc

OP posts:
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 08/06/2020 22:05

You may be able to find something in here:

www.transgendertrend.com/tag/gendered-intelligence/

Swipe left for the next trending thread