Is BLM a trojan horse?

It actually feels this is a bit of a RW cult. Probably why I never joined it. Why are you so frightened of the others you other

i'm not frightened of anyone.I'm disagreeing with some of your points and arguments, and you seem to be intolerant of that. You seem to want simplicity in areas in which it does not exist.

Really? Then choose a better one?

The suggestion was it's reductive. Disagreeing doesn't mean that people can't understand the concept.

What is your arguement about Trans again? Is that not simple

The trans agenda/question can be approached from many different angles, and no it is not simple.

What is simple, though, is that one cannot change sex. That sex is real. What is more complex, though, is that people will disagree on what gender is; what gender means; what makes a man different from a woman; and what being a woman means and implies. That is why some women are gender critical and others are not; and why some women see all differences as socially constructed, while others, and some scientists, do not.

I'm at the number of people who are GC here, and yet have wholeheartedly aligned with the BLM movement. Racism exists, but the hysteria and furore that are accompanying a genuine need to examine racism smacks of the same hysteria and furore that yell "stunning and brave".

@BertiesLanding you've put in to words something I have been feeling uneasy about for a while now but if you try to express this you're immediately shouted down as racist.

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But don't you think it's rather curious that BLM mission statement doesn't actually mention black men?
Seeing as that's who they were set up for, they don't even mention them?

It's not about trans per-se, it's about this ridiculous "woke" ideology that ends up being a complete distraction.

Are any of you actually feminists or has a secret cult slipped in? If you are feminists and this is a tenant of your belief system. Well I'm not suprised you are being ignored over your Trans issues. It really is laughable seeing the prejudice on this thread

As with white people, or black people, feminists and women come in all shapes, sizes and persuasions..which is why such B&W analogies and blanket generalisations are not useful - and simply inflame conflict.

'Being conscious' extends to you too, you know. You are taking a rather hind minded , superior tone, and that never goes down well, and never will. Many on the progressive left, as it defines itself these days, have a rather unsavoury shadow - which is anything but tolerant, inclusive, egalitarian etc

Unfortunately you'll have a hard time convincing the majority of "indigenous" British people that it's ok to destroy a statue of Winston Churchill.

Most people probably will agree that Churchill was "racist" when you apply modern day ethics to the past. However, Churchill was still instrumental in building the Britain we live in today, the one that ethnic minority people benefit from living in. Destroying his statue is inevitably going to lead to backlash. (Not from me, by the way, I understand the frustrations of oppression).

Where has anyone said they want to destroy the UK culture? U less you mean statues to slave traders?

Read previous posts.

Privilege admittance does not infer 'victimhood' to those oppressed. It means that there is conscious admittance that they live their life with privilege compared to others. It's really not difficult

No it's not difficult, be it is far too simplistic, and as such makes untrue and sweeping generalisations across whole groups of human beings.

Interesting. This thread title exposes what for me is an appalling part of feminism. BLM can be defined as a Trojan horse (ie can be defined in terms of your agenda) because of this assumption there is no other way to define anything. BLM is dangerous and nasty if it doesn't exactly promote feminist ideology in the way you want it to. BLM may or may not be good for the people it claims to support but I would have thought that it deserves to be defined primarily in those terms, not how transphobic or otherwise it is. The utter indifference for other groups, regardless of what they're going through, continues to be breathtaking. This thread title implies that you're one step away from deciding if a black man's torture is playing well or badly for the feminist cause, or at least mainly interested in it in that context. And it makes me think that people this self-absorbed don't need more power. I don't recognise this as feminist and you don't speak for me. Just this once, it's not about what you're trying to make it about.

Could BLM be promoted by China/Russia/North Korea for example to dis-stablise the U.K., Europe and the USA. There are certainly some extremely unpleasant people, often white, involved in what has been going on.

Hopefully most of them have been arrested and will be taken to court and get proper sentences.

Most of the rioting is nothing to do with human rights just anarchists.

As to the 'indigenous ' post. The Empire was built on colonialism. The money came from that. History people

That doesn’t change the fact that there is an indigenous population with an indigenous culture in the UK. Or that a group standing up and saying ‘we intend to destroy your culture’ isn’t going to be met with resistance - why do you think so many people voted for Brexit?

It's really not difficult

This is a horrible phrase used in these kinds of discussions.

White men have all sorts of different colours of hair and eyes, but I am not aware of any substantial oppression on the basis of that

Well, that's just naive in my view. White people, including white men, of course, just like black people come from many different cultures, class & social backgrounds - and they are not all privileged at all.

Such reductionist statements as Male Privilege or White Privilege don't help at all in my view. They ignore differences of circumstance and culture between people within each category, and simply generates blanket 'victimhood' upon whole groups of people, and blanket 'oppressor' status on others. Inevitably leads to backlash and division.

Racism certainly exists in the uk, not just for black people either but also Asian, Middle East, Indian sub-continent, North Africa, etc
but the problems and solutions are different to America and I think there is a very confusing blurring here with these protests which won’t address the issues in the UK.

The non-British-ethnicity British are pretty recent arrivals compared to African-Americans. The BAME population of the UK up until the second world War was very small and a lot have arrived in the last generation. Schools are not funded just by their local areas and the poorest performing schools are not those with high BAME populations but white working class seaside towns. Talking about the destruction of ’western’ culture and history would go very badly here because it is the indigenous culture you are talking about, not just a white culture.

... also: sorry for the typos. Sausage fingers. Phone.

Bloody hell, people!

No, BLM is not a trojan horse!

It IS a social justice movement and as such fits into the larger puzzle of the general landscape of cutlrrent thought on social progression / "justice". That's hardly surprising.

But what on earth has happened to intelligent people being able to form differentiates opinions? The world isn't a question of black and white but mostly a complez and occasionally very confusing array of different shades of grey.

"You're either with us or against us" is, quite literally, how GWB and Blair sold that very questionable Iraq War to us, with a shameful amount of success, when any halfway intelligent person could see that a) yes, Saddam was a despot but also b) no, he arguably had nothing at all to do with 9/11.

I for one happen to think that a) BLM is, overwhelmingly albeit never exclusively, a goid and necessary thing, that b) yes, ideological cross-overs, including with some TWAW types, are inevitable and also c) as intelligent adults we are capable of forming and defending differentiated view points.

This is not the Lidl Ideology 3-for-1 discount (limited time only).

I get really worried when people develop issue-specific tunnel vision to an extent that they start to simplify.

I, for one, want to both see true equality for black people and support movements to this effect AND to be able to go for a bloody bra fitting without Harriet, formerly known as George, getting a stiffie whilst assessing my cup size.

It's not rocket science!