Is BLM a trojan horse?

Lobbying words on a keyboard to rationalise myopic viewpoints

That is exactly what you seem to be doing. People have tried to engage wit you in good faith, and you just keep coming back with dismissive put downs and sweeping generalisations. No content.

Really? Or perhaps the radical feminists who fight against Trans whilst ignoring all other fights...and as we have seen on this thread some have outed themselves to have outwardly racist views

i haven't read any racist views on this board, apart from yours, to be honest.

Where are the racist posts?
Do you mean posts in which people disagree about certain things?

It doesn't matter how many times you attempt to circle that square. Taking the high ground regarding protests for EQUALITY. If you do not believe equality is a right and you arent doing anything to ensure that right is there for all. Where do you think you sit? Lobbying words on a keyboard to rationalise myopic viewpoints

There is equality in law..but there is never going to be equality of outcome; because people are different from each and make different choices in life based on their values.

You keep going on about 'trans' and have outlined my view that sex is real and one cannot change sex. What else do you want me to say? Beyond that there is much disagreement about the nature of gender; what it is; and what it implies.

Try explain which equivalence you are trying to make? Or rather shoe-horn me into?

Not all the feminists on this thread are radical. I'm not, for starters. And no one is 'fighting against trans', whatever that means. There are lots fighting for women, however. And there is no racism that I can see.

Lobbying words on a keyboard to rationalise myopic viewpoints?

Not sure if you mean lobbing or lobbying - but that's a fantastic description of the TRAs!

Just Anger, not amorphous anger

Any emotion without a consciously channelled target is amorphous.
Free floating love is amorphous, until focused onto a specific cause, person or passion. Anger without consciousness and direction is just destructive.

It isn't just about politics. It is about you and me. What are you going to do to make change

The most lasting changes one can make, and that goes for everyone, regardless of skin colour, is to examine oneself and to open one's heart, and to make choices and decisions out of a feeling of personal integrity and moral conscience.

So, for example, when you wake up to the exploitation and suffering of animals, you tend to become vegan or vegetarian. You certainly don't eat at McDonald's after a protest. You attempt to align your beliefs with your practices, and in a consumer culture you make changes to how and what you spend your money on. You also try to buy fair trade products or similar, and avoid the products of a company that is known to employ indentured labour, as another example.

Of course. we cannot each personally do anything to change overnight what we perceive as detrimental wider cultural practices; all we can do is our personal best within certain pre-existing conditions. It is difficult to avoid certain things in a culture which is saturated with them, but good intention and desire for change goes a long way.

Real change does not come from trying to silence others, though, or make demands on them that don't accord with their feelings of personal integrity or free agency. not many are n ever going to shut up if they fundamentally disagree with what is being requested of them, or told to them.

Now that might sound flowery, but it is actually the only way to heal and become more conscious. No one group, in totality, is responsible for the sufferings of others. Being told that you are personally responsible for the sufferings of a whole other group of human beings is both pointless and achieves nothing.

Smile, we each have our own experience. People I knew who went to the BLM demonstration were all affluent white middle class with nice, expensive homes, and on the wrong side of 50.

It is all such fun. Trot along to Trafalgar Sq, meet up with friends, in normal times go for a drink or meal afterwards (I’m surprised London restaurants don’t offer post demo menus) and then post about it on Fb, Insta, or Twitter. The cause may vary, but as long as it does not affect your comfortable life, why not signal your awareness. You are young because you never had to grow up.

Iceland, in contrast was full of black people leading lives that matter. (It’s lockdown remember, so my big outing. I can’t be arsed to queue for Waitrose or Sainsbury’s.) No time to demonstrate. Working as cashier, security guard, or shelf filler. Shopping for family. I really hope that lockdown has made us all more aware of the people who, day to day, keep our country going, many of whom are black. They need to be appreciated. I would strongly support a movement that demands equality and seeks to reduce the wealth gap. From my own, limited prism, the demonstrations may have started a debate, but to achieve real change there needs to be substance.

I was looking for another video, but stumbled onto this one from last year. I've started listening to it and it sounds really fascinating right from the start.

Is anyone here willing to discuss the points raised? I wonder how much of it I would agree with (I'm only 15 minutes in), but I like to challenge my presumptions and listen to well reasoned arguments.

I agree with Jane's Kettle - great post. I also stand by what I said earlier in the thread which is that I think BLM is more like Troy than the actual horse. In other words, the TRA horse is infiltrating it rather than it being the horse, as it were.

No, it's not. It's just subject to the same entryism that's resulted in every other leftist movement regurgitating the same verbiage. I've been at BLM protests in the US. They're generally not led by transwomen.

Good morning, Smile. Refreshed and ready for another day of finger wagging and scolding?

Great post janeskettle.

If those in power like to pretend that the anger directed towards them is amorphous then they are not listening.

If there is no theory of racism and no mechanism, and no looking at the data about police violence, and no political program, it's amorphous and vague. There is no political action to take. It's pretend politics.

The 13 Guiding Principles says absolutely nothing like what you claim.

Of the 469 words, 50 talk about the goal of restorative justice replacing punishment for the sake of vengeance, and 41 more have a goal of empathy and loving engagement. That’s 91 words you missed. Or ignored.

You also missed the 49 words on diversity, the 48 words on valuing all people, the 93 words on family and community, the 40 words on black pride, the 19 words on women.

You got all freaked out over 56 words - 11% of the statement - acknowledging part of the community and used that as an excuse to dismiss and mischaracterize everything else.

It's been interesting to me the extent to which many people seem to really think that the purpose of a political protest is just to show a kind of amorphous anger,

Just Anger, not amorphous anger.

If those in power like to pretend that the anger directed towards them is amorphous then they are not listening. They are not seeking a solution. They are just pretending and using distraction to excuse themselves.

The point will come when the movement will formulate some sort of programme and organisation, or it will ebb away because you can't just demonstrate every day indefinitely.

You can bet your bottom dollar that the establishment will be trying to identify those leaders, destroy the radical ones and boost the more conciliatory ones.

I think what I am saying is that this has already happened. The conciliatory leaders have been identified, and they are now just about the only ones allowed to define the terms of the discussion.

I swear to God this was the weekend that I finally understood when people say 'intersectionality', they don't actually mean it.And as for being anti-capitalist? Equally hollow.

It's been interesting to me the extent to which many people seem to really think that the purpose of a political protest is just to show a kind of amorphous anger, or an vague support for a very general cause, and without even any real attempt to look careful at the topic which is supposedly being addressed.

I can't decide, is it because they don't realise that is not what caused political change before? Because they don't realise that there are specific ideological positions behind these groups that drive what they do and how they do it?

There absolutely were leaders in the 1960s. And there were tons of manifestoes.

Yes, this was my point. There were leaders, there were manifestos, there was actual concrete political work being done, where people hashed out what their interests were, how they could work with others, what the underlying mechanisms were of the problems they were facing. The protested to make concrete political demands.

That is not what has been going on with BLM (and no, that is not the same as black lives matter, for goodness sake.) BLM is not new, it is not a young organisation, and it does have a philosophy, it is absolutely immersed in Critical Race Theory. That is the basis of their analysis and their literature and their approach to politics. It doesn't fail to offer a concrete program because it hasn't had time, it can't offer one because it's analysis isn't directed in that way, and because it not only doesn't create coalitions, it destroys even the naturally occurring ones.

So long as it's the only theory allowed, there can be no real improvement, unless it's an improvement for 3% or the poor and disenfranchised, and 3% of the super-rich of the UK to be black.

There absolutely were leaders in the 1960s. And there were tons of manifestoes.

All political movements have leaders, whether you like it or not.

All mass movements start like this, with anger and amorphous ideas. Some people are hardened campaigners and some are saying "I didn't realise racism was still a thing, I had no idea".

The point will come when the movement will formulate some sort of programme and organisation, or it will ebb away because you can't just demonstrate every day indefinitely.

You can bet your bottom dollar that the establishment will be trying to identify those leaders, destroy the radical ones and boost the more conciliatory ones.

I get that it's grammatically correct in lower case Dudu, but IRL, it warrants capitals.