Is BLM a trojan horse?

NewAccountForCorona have you come across this article before?

newdiscourses.com/2020/06/do-better-than-critical-race-theory/

Then why is sex not mentioned in that declaration?

I agree with you @Nonnymouse1337

The one comparison I do worry about is the silencing of all discussion on race; I think it's important because if every discussion is dismissed with "that's racist" it will never be possible to reach any solutions.

Discussions about race are not always inherently racist, just as discussing trans issues is not transphobic, and labelling all discussion as bigoted doesn't help anyone.

@ShootsFruitAndLeaves I am not sure if its that its the tactics that are the same, or if theres the same group of people shouting about both causes you see on SM.

The same group of vocal 'woke' people, shouting about both Trans Rights and BLM, who only have the tactic of shouting others down.

I think the majority of what I am seeing from my (white) peers is wholeheartedly about themselves. Its about how they appear to others and not really about BLM.

But I dont think it makes the movements the same, I think its just theres a group of people who support both. And arent really used to debating

I don't know any white women (or women of any ethnicity or colour) who think black women aren't women.

I do know many women of many backgrounds/colours/ethnicity who think that transwomen are not women.

I agree that there are a significant number of white people jumping on the BLM bandwagon and making it all about meeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

There is a very strong rejection by many posters of racism being a factor in everyday British life

Do these posters outnumber the posters that do acknowledge racism affects Black people in the UK?

I have not ventured very much outside of the FWR board, but most posters in here seem very much in the anti-racism camp from what I can tell, and frequently provide counter arguments to points raised during discussions. And I haven't come across anyone who denies racism exists or has existed.

There will always be differences of opinions as to how prevalent or systemic racism might be or whether what's considered as racism today is equivalent to what was considered as racism in the past etc. And people of all colours will have their opinions and viewpoints in those areas based on their experiences and understanding.

I think we will look back at transitioning children with the same horror as we now look back at slavery

I'm hmm at the number of people who are GC here, and yet have wholeheartedly aligned with the BLM movement.

This is a fair point.

Many of the tactics are the same. You MUST support trans rights or you are evil. You MUST support BLM and cannot criticise mass protests.

So basically, BLM is no more a 'Trojan horse' than every other third sector type campaign org nowadays.

Which would be a ‘yes’ then, just like those other organisations.

No Nonny, the statement isn’t meant to be disparaging, it’s just a factual statement. I used it to mean that we can take the flavour of responses on Mumsnet as a good guide to the thoughts of white women in the U.K. Please don’t insult me by making out I’ve missed the bloomin’ obvious.

Transactivists have said, on many occasions, that if black women are women then transwomen must be women too. The reasoning seems to be that they think both TW and black women are equally masculine looking, so you can't claim that one isn't a woman without claiming it for both. Transactivists also say that no spaces should be single sex ever, despite this excluding many many women of colour from public life whose culture and religions forbid them to be undressed around or alone with men. Transactivism demands that TW be placed in female prisons and refuges, where black women are also over represented, therefore placing black women at disproportionately increased levels of risk from male violence in spaces they should be safe. And it makes it problematic and hostile for women to talk about their bodies, especially in relation to childbirth and pregnancy where black women are disproportionately likely to die. It means that campaigns intended to support female health initiatives now use language like "cervix havers" which creates barriers for women who have English as a second language. It means that survivors of FGM have been been told to stop talking about their experiences as it excludes TW. So to say that black women are used as props by white feminists against transwomen in order for them to somehow gain more privaledge, and that a truly interactional approach must include transwomen, is obvious nonsense. Pretty much the only group who aren't that badly affected by Transactivists are white middle class women. The more marginalised you are as a woman, the more Transactivism will disadvantage you - it blows my mind how many people don't seem able to see this. If your "intersectional feminism" actively creates barriers for black women, perpetuate racist stereotypes against them, and makes it harder for them to discuss their lives or access help, then it's not really intersectional is it? It's just more racism and male supremacy.

The question of whether there's been a lot of racism on MN recently is somewhat separate, and in my opinion yes there has been a disappointingly large amount of racism on here this week. But many (most?) white people (including white women) are invested on some level in denying white privaledge, just like many (most?) men (including black men) are invested in denying male privaledge. I don't think MN is unique for that.

As I said in my earlier post, ALL black lives matter, including the lives of black trans people. If BLM wants to centre the needs of black transwomen then that's their right. That doesn't make TW women and it doesn't mean they have any place in feminism.

a forum used mainly by white women

I see this kind of reference a lot. I get the impression it is meant to be disparaging and make people feel guilty for some reason.

Mumsnet is a predominantly UK website, although people from various countries use it. The vast majority of the population in the UK are white. 80.5% white British in England and Wales according to the last census.
Therefore it's hardly surprising that the vast majority of users of Mumsnet who are from the UK will also be white.

It's like expressing surprise and dissatisfaction that the vast majority of Weibo users are Chinese.

Also he stabbed the guy to death, if he had a gun, why didn't he just shoot him? But like I said, I wasn't there, maybe just because a knife is more personal

According to the full report, McDade carried a BB gun most recently. I guess this would look real to police, but might not be that good as a murder weapon.

One of the many things that I see in the BLM movement are a whole slew of white people who are evangelically vocal in their self-denigration as racists and oppressors. Which, of course, puts them front and centre of the experience once again. While BAME are dehumanised still ... except this time by being martyrs and Christ-like figures who are responsible for our salvation. When, in truth, we are all just human, complex, flawed. And so the othering of the other because of their skin colour goes unchecked, amidst all the marching and fist-pumping.

I'm at the number of people who are GC here, and yet have wholeheartedly aligned with the BLM movement. Racism exists, but the hysteria and furore that are accompanying a genuine need to examine racism smacks of the same hysteria and furore that yell "stunning and brave".

Mumsnet, a forum used mainly by white women, is awash with prejudice and stereotyping about black people. There is a very strong rejection by many posters of racism being a factor in everyday British life, though black women are, conveniently, a useful prop in arguments against trans ideology. No wonder some black women seek comradeship with others they view as marginalised by feminism.

I was posting more about the statistics than who died, also you post that he argued that he was only set up with a gun, during a drug deal gone bad, I'm wondering if maybe the climate of being black in America is what made him feel like he needed to get into that lifestyle of drugs and robbing people, he clearly stated that he had mental issues and needed help, but I'm not arguing for or against, I wasn't there and I don't know their life,

"I am killing and going to be killed, because I will not go back into federal prison."

Could you imagine what lows in life you'd have to hit, to get 'brutally beat' and instead of feeling like you could safely go to the police for help you have to take the matter into your own hands,

Also he stabbed the guy to death, if he had a gun, why didn't he just shoot him? But like I said, I wasn't there, maybe just because a knife is more personal.

Wow all that information you posted makes me feel worse for him, what a life to live, sent to jail for something you might not of even done, I know someone who beat up a pedo, but when it came to court there was no proof that the guy was a pedo (he had been caught by the mum after he'd asked her to go make him a cup of tea and snack in her kitchen, she came back to her baby girl naked and a camera phone in his hand focused on the baby) but her word wasn't enough proof when my friend had gone over under the guise of a drug deal, so proving drug charges and 'drug deal gone bad' was easier for the courts to process.

So it seems like a transmen was at the end of his ropes and decided to commit suicide by firing squad after taking some revenge for himself, awful situation, I hope from this more mental support is given to young people, maybe if he felt like he could reach out after being brutally beat for living his own life how he wanted he wouldn't of turned to murder suicide.

I'm not black, so it would be interesting to understand whether black women think the BLM movement is about them too. Or is it primarily about the men? Are the interests/particular concerns of black men prioritised over those of black women. I suspect they are.

It is believed that Tony was under great threat, he was reportedly being targeted with violence by five cisgender men on account of his being trans and his death is thought to be the result of trying to defend himself against these brutal hate crimes.

These claims tend to be untrue or misleading.

Tony McDade killed next-door neighbour, Malik Jackson, 21, after pledging to do so on FB Live.

www.facebook.com/tony.mcdade.39/

McDade had mental health and drug problems.

The police claimed that McDade had a gun when arrested, hence the shooting. Others have said not.

However McDade spent 10 years in prison for gun crimes so the police claims have credibility.

www.tallahassee.com/story/news/local/2020/06/02/natosha-tony-mcdade-tallahasssee-protests-protest-mental-illness-fatal-stabbing-police-shooting/5300384002/

From the article:

After serving a five-year prison sentence for armed robbery, McDade was behind bars again on a probation violation she got after Tallahassee police found her with guns and drugs.

She wrote then-Leon Circuit Judge Mark Walker in early October 2009 pleading for mental health treatment and begging for a second chance. She said the underlying robbery was actually "a drug deal gone bad" and that someone set her up with the gun to get her in trouble.

McDade said her rap sheet of more than a dozen arrests showed she was “a fighter not a gun user” and pleaded to be sent to Florida State Hospital in Chattahoochee for treatment if convicted.

“I have an anger problem and always fought behind my anger,” McDade wrote. “I NEED HELP PLEASE SIR. I have a mental problem.”

But McDade was in far deeper trouble than she knew. Around the time she wrote the letter, a federal grand jury indicted her on serious gun charges from the arrest.

She got 10 years in prison and was transferred far from home, to the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, New York.

Last week, McDade, 38, was shot and killed by a Tallahassee police officer after allegedly stabbing to death Malik Jackson, 21, the son of a next-door neighbor. The stabbing came only hours after a group of men brutally attacked McDade in an incident caught on cell phone video.

...

McDade wrestled with gender identity. Over the past year or two, McDade began transitioning to a man.

“When she started the transition, she wanted to be known as Tony,” Roberson said. “When you hear people who say ‘she,’ those are people who have been in Tosha’s life for a very long time, and that’s how we identify Tosha. And when youhearpeople who say ‘he,’ those are the ones ... who also identify Tosha as male.”

...

It's unclear how important names and pronouns were to McDade. Witnesses in the most recent arrest used the name Latosha, and McDade had a number of aliases including "Kiti," according to court records. McDade used both Tony and Natosha in the Facebook video.

People with agendas like to reduce this to childishly simplistic narratives about transphobia.

However violent men would have identified McDade as female and a lesbian. Having the stature, muscle, bone density, etc., of a woman would do that.

It's possible that McDade was victimised as a perceived lesbian.

It's likely that McDade was victimised as a vulnerable woman with mental health problems.

It's certain that involvement with drugs and guns, and living in a housing project surrounded by criminals would have made McDade's prospects as a black person worse, than say a middle class black person living in a nice suburb.

It's a very simplistic narrative to say 'black trans lives matter'. This is a 'black lives matter' story in that this is a black person living among crime, involved with crime, and killed by the police after committing a homicide. The overarching story arc is tragic. But those who want to reduce it to 'transphobia' are idiots.

The story continues:

On Tuesday, after events that remain unclear, a group of men brutally beat McDade in an incident partially captured on cell phone video.

Later that day, McDade went live on Facebook, venting deep pain and anguish and vowing revenge on the attackers and a confrontation with police.

“It’s just Tony the Tiger all alone coming for your blood,” McDade said. "I am killing and going to be killed, because I will not go back into federal prison."

By Wednesday afternoon, McDade was dead, along with a next-door neighbor’s son, Malik Jackson, who was reportedly involved in the beating. McDade stabbed Jackson around 10:45 a.m., police said, before going on the run, making it as far as housing complexes on Holton Street.

I think Grabthar has summed it up perfectly.