I simply cannot comprehend the whole gender debate

why does it matter what sex someone is?

I mean that is just blatant homophobia right there.

It's simultaneously homophobic and heterophobic - presumably it could only be said seriously by someone bisexual who also had no capacity for understanding that other people's sexuality may differ from theirs.

Op it feels like “the masses” but there are a huge number of people who agree with you. And another even huger number who don’t care - yet - because they haven’t - yet - experienced their private spaces being invaded, or their right to express the truth of their biological existence trampled on. Sadly that number is diminishing but it will help the thin shout voices speaking up against this disastrous social policy.

Have found this link about the Lesbian Strength March. Not saying you should read it all but just to show you are not alone! www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3663822-Lesbian-Strength-March-and-Rally-in-Leeds-on-7-September-2019?noti=1#89262721

And this thread which I thin got a lot on mumsnet thinking about the impact on lesbians of the TWAW agenda.

Being a homosexual female in a community of queer people, transbians and penis-inclusionary lesbians www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3621239-Being-a-homosexual-female-in-a-community-of-queer-people-transbians-and-penis-inclusionary-lesbians?noti=1#88573083

Hi Cornana

As others have said welcome. And yes this has been covered before but it is really important that it keeps getting raised.

Being lesbian is being same sex attracted. Gender as a social construct is totally irrelevant! Men who claim to be women and then sexually harass lesbians who do not want to have any sort of relationship let alone a sexual one, are just male predators. They try to intimidate lesbians with name calling such as being transphobic. Unfortunately some young women have felt coerced which is really, really unaceptable.

But in case you didn't know a whole campaign has grown out of this, ie saying that being same sex attracted whether as a man or as a woman has nothing whatsoever to do with trans / gender identity.

Please google for LGB Alliance. They are on facebook, twitter and their own web site.

Some lesbians also felt strongly about this and formed a group called GetTheLOut!

And last year there was a march Lesbian Pride.

I was going to post links to some of the threads but keep getting an error message. Hope this is a temporary glitch and not some mumsnet ereasing of lesbians!

why does it matter what sex someone is?

I mean that is just blatant homophobia right there.

Wokeness is so regressive.

if someone could tell me what is actually “transphobic.”

I've found a list of things that are transphobic. It says it's incomplete, so there may be other things as well. I haven't copied the list here because there are 122 items on it.

glinner.co.uk/full-list-of-transphobic-things/

if someone could tell me what is actually “transphobic.”

We are all waiting for this definition. Because it seems that to simply reframe the discussion to be around women and their rights and pointing out that sex still matters in many aspects of life, is phobic speak.

I did like how Ricky Gervais dealt with this recently.

However, no one has an answer that has consensus. And currently, with the meanings of words being adapted to whatever purpose a movement wants them to mean, I doubt there ever will be consensus.

There is a strong activism going funded by a few very rich and very aggressive activists that gender and/or sex is a choice. In reality the vast majority of people don't really believe this but the minority keeps pushing their agenda and silencing concerns by labelling everything as transphobic and by being very aggressive about it.

The whole problem is based around the idea that gender and sex are the same thing. They are not.

You are same sex attracted, not same gender attracted.

They hate that.

Welcome, Cornana.

As far as I'm concerned, wrong language isn't really a thing, except in some really rare instances where it's pretty obvious a word is used to be deliberately offensive and aggressive.

As for this board, there are some rules on this board that I am a little bit hazy on, but 'cis' and 'terf' are not allowed, for example, nor is misgendering (I want to put 'misgendering' in brackets, because I find it an odd idea, but to be clear, it's not the word itself but the act that is disallowed - unless the person has committed a crime, afaik, like Karen White).

Generally, if you're posting in good faith I think you will be fine. Also best to post in generalities rather than about one person specifically, unless they're in the public eye.

Welcome @Cornana! I love hanging out here as a safe space to learn and be feminist without being called a bigot.
I think the plight of lesbian women in this is one of the main things that peak transed me. It's fecking horrific that they're being called the things you've been called, when gays and lesbians fought for so long to be accepted.
There are LGB organisations realising that sexuality is not about gender and setting up spaces away from the T. And there are some brilliant gay and lesbian GCs on Twitter if / when you feel strong enough to go there. Professional Judy is one of my faves.

Sadly not justanother

The cotton ceiling is lesbians not being free from accusations of bigotry and transphobia for rejecting men as sexual partners.

The boxer ceiling (Facebook) has examples of the same for gay men. There are some very confused, bitter women out there who are pretty angry that men who fancy men don't want to date or have sex with them because they are a woman.

I saw one woman who claimed to be 'trans', who was in a hereto relationship with a child who wanted the gay male cashier at her local store (USA) to flirt back with her, she was fuming that he didn't.

Cornana, have you had a look at LGB Alliance? Stonewall's successor!

By this logic, and self identification, labels such as lesbian literally have no meaning anymore.

Except for in all the countries where homosexuality is still criminalised or in religions where gay people are condemned to eternal damnation.

But never mind, think of all the sponsorship available to Stonewall now that it is heterosexual inclusive!

Are gay men still allowed to be attracted to other gay men or has the goal posts changed for them too?

Sorry for the auto-spell, my phone turned your user name into the virus Cornana!

Sorry about that x

Welcome Corona what you drinking? As PPs say, it is all nonsense that's why it doesn't make any sense, no one here (or on any other group or platform I've found) can answer sensible, reasonable questions and you're not wrong to find the whole thing ridiculous and frustrating.

I don't think you need it but I always recommend the Break it Down for me thread (you might enjoy the purity spirals one too) and generally reading around the FWR board. It helped me a lot as this place is how I found my way. It took some time to recover from the shock I can tell you!

Anyway, you're here now, make yourself comfortable xx

What was the largest LGB lobby group in the UK, now refuses to define homosexuality as same sex attracted in case it upsets the straight males.

They say a lesbian is a women who is attracted to other women.
This might look perfectly fine, until you realise that their description of women includes transvestite, cross dressers and other males.

A straight male telling a gay female to suck his dick and get over her "genital fetish" should be homophobic, rapey conversion therapy. Not in 2020.

How can we call out misogyny or homophobia if we can't name our sex.

Basically none of it makes sense to me, at all.

That's because it's nonsense.

• I even tried to ‘understand’ their side at first, but failed miserably. My mind is too logical to even go there.

The failure is in their dogma, not you.

Sexuality is about sex. You fancy women. Females, not feminine men. Maybe there are some women whose sexuality is based on 'gender' who might fancy both - doesn't mean in any way that you should.

The 'gender fetishist' slur (and note that all actual fetishes are never spoken of with the same disapproval by the genderists, are they?funny that...) is an attempt to coerce you.

Christ on a bike they go on and on and on about accepting everybody and being inclusive and not hurting anyone's feelings and wanting to feel safe and not be discriminated against. Why can't they accept everybody and be inclusive and not hurt anyone's feelings and want everyone to feel safe and not be discriminated against?

I’m just tired of “messing up” in LGBT spaces because I said something considered transphobic

I'm gay and I stopped hanging out in LGBT spaces a couple of years ago as it was just so exhausting having to bite my tongue all the time. I got to the point where I realised I just didn't have any reason to be there any more and didn't feel welcome. Basically, the only way I could fit in was by pretending to be something I wasn't and it just got too tiresome and stressful.

About a year ago, I found myself at a (ridiculously woke) 'feminist' social meetup and was talking to two other women. One described herself as pansexual. I said I was a lesbian and the pansexual one looked at me with disdain and said "I don't understand why everyone can't be pansexual - why does it matter what sex someone is?".

You’ve come to the right place. Pull up a chair and keep talking! The women here will keep you sane (as well as amazing you with their intelligence and common sense).

I literally don't know what's going on anymore. Just tell me what you want me to call you like...

No wonder people are confused if you can't even be a straight up (excuse the word) lesbian these days!

Anyway, don't feel bad about it. You aren't to know if someone is one way or another or neither unless they tell you.

Welcome to the club, Cornana!

You're a perfectly sane, rational person like the vast majority of the public. Most people reach similar conclusions as you do, once they start looking into the debate and try to understand it. It's a very topsy turvy ideology that makes no sense.

Take your time reading about gender identity ideology. There's a lot of information on these boards. Remember to also take breaks if it all starts to feel too crazy or exhausting. This stuff has been going on for a long time. It's only recently gotten wider public attention.